Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be annoyed that so many on mn seem to begrudge pensioners?

334 replies

Slartybartfast · 13/02/2018 10:14

for mainly being too rich
so many of you seem to think that those who have retired at 65 and are likely enough to have a good pension have somehow cheated

OP posts:
Tapandgo · 13/02/2018 17:16

Actually, it is. That's was paying taxes is for

Actually it’s not. Taxes are to benefit all of us ~ and that includes pensioners. If people keep taking out what they have not contributed to, the pot goes empty very fast. Pensioners are not the ones emptyjng the pot.

juneau · 13/02/2018 17:17

The main thing you can say is that they didn't have a load of crap that people have today that people don't really need or take pleasure from.

Totally agree with this. My parents are horrified by all the toys and 'stuff' crammed into our house - and actually I don't blame them - I am too.

Tapandgo · 13/02/2018 17:17

Many pensioners have a great deal of empathy for the young. They are parents of the young, many providing homes to their own children, long after they should have ‘moved on’.

Backenette · 13/02/2018 17:26

But they ARE entitled to it. They grew up often in shattered bombed towns, with rationing and extreme poverty. We still have furniture from my grandparents with shrapnel in it.
My parents had no gas or electric, only cold water, outside plumbing. They were POOR. They’ve worked really hard their whole lives and now live in a modest house which they own in the north. It’s not worth a fortune, they still live modestly and they aren’t rolling in it. Theyve got solid but modest pensions, They’ve had to scratch for everything - when we were kids in the 70s we were poor - but not as poor as they were. We had no curtains for a year when we moved into our first owned house until Mum could afford fabric to make them.

I begrudge them nothing. They’ve paid their dues. The issue is not pensioners, it’s our ruling elite fucking us on everything from wages to housing.

Thehogfather · 13/02/2018 17:28

blue I don't mean you personally cost the nhs, nor would I begrudge it if you did. Nor am I in the position to question whether you personally should get a state pension.

But I disagree n.i and tax should be about getting back a fair amount based on contributions. It doesn't work that way for anyone of any age. Someone who hasn't been a net contributor through no fault of their own shouldn't live in poverty in retirement whilst someone with the luck to have had chance to get a large private pension and gets the same state pension lives in luxury. Especially when you consider that for anyone, wealth doesn't automatically result in net contribution.

InTheB3d · 13/02/2018 17:30

Personally, I don't understand why UK has state pension, then some money added on separately like winter fuel allowance. Why not just increase the pension for everyone. ? Secondly, I don't agree with pensioner `bashing' isn't there a saying look at how a society treats it's sick and 'elderly ?. Slot of elderly people left school at 14 or 15. I have heard stories about rationing after the world wars, baths using kettles of hot water, growing your own food, no electricity. 'Elderly people also get illnesses that can stop them driving, so bus passes are useful. Would a 20 or 30 year old really say to an 80+ person that they are not entitled to their pension and other benefits ? ??? People are living longer due to better medicine and life expectancy will probably continue to increase

choli · 13/02/2018 17:41

Obviously all retired folks should sign their houses over to their kids and spend the rest of their days providing free childcare to their grandkids. That would level the playing field!

Bluelady · 13/02/2018 17:52

Thing is that very wealthy pensioners lose some or all of their state pensions and all the add ons via the tax system anyway. Even those getting the higher rate pension can only have additional income of £3,300 before they start paying tax.

Tapandgo · 13/02/2018 18:09

whilst someone with the luck to have had chance to get a large private pension and gets the same state pension lives in luxury

Why do you think people have private pensions through luck

Many people pay in to private pensions and do so by not spending on something else. I’ve driven it in to my kids to sort out a private pension as a necessary buffering against financial problems post retirement age.
One listens, one chooses to ignore.
If on retirement the one who hasn’t set up a private pension heard he would be ‘bailed out’ and the one who did was to get nothing, because they had financially planned ahead by denying themself something in their youth, I can tell you, neither would plan ahead! (With my backing!)

Other people who are in a position to have a private company pension and other benefits, probably spent years studying (not earning) to get in that position while doing high stress/high risk jobs where you are reliant on bonuses or evaluations that can see you ‘sidelined’.

Nothing lucky about it

Tapandgo · 13/02/2018 18:11

And ~ pensions are taxed as well as incomes, so these lucky people are still paying in to the system

Bluelady · 13/02/2018 18:14

Tif they did say "the chance to get". If you're on a very low income you can't put large amounts of money into a pension scheme.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 13/02/2018 18:48

Pensioners have worked hard all their lives. Every generation does. Younger people just haven't HAD their whole lives yet, but they will work hard probably for more years in total and with less to show for it at the end.

Tapandgo · 13/02/2018 19:17

sinister
This is why they need to put more away (something is better than nothing) and take advantage of the Help to Buy ISA’s etc. However many want to, for example, travel the world when they are young, and not want to wait til their older. Great idea ~ but it doesn’t go hand in hand with saving and securing the future.

meredintofpandiculation · 13/02/2018 19:38

InTheB3d ... I think it's due to political expediences at the time. For example, i think at one time pensions were linked to earnings, then for whatever reason that was dropped, some time after that there was concern at the number of deaths from hypothermia, so it became expedient to pay a specific winter heating allowance, at a time when a pension increase wasn't deemed to be politically advantageous, and there were more Brownie Points to be obtained by "£200 to pay for extra winter heating and ensure no pensioner dies of hypothermia in their own home" rather than "and we're going to increase the state pension by £3.80 a week". And of course they restored the earnings link to great fanfare, at the time when earnings were reducing so it wouldn't cost them anything. It's all down to maximum good publicity for minimum cost, not a coherent policy at all. Why, for example, should younger boomers get £155pw pension while older boomers and all older pensioners only get £122?

Bluelady · 13/02/2018 19:58

Easy, because younger boomers, particularly women have had to wait longer for their pensions. My qualifying date was put back twice. A lot of women who expected to reach pension age at 60 are now having to wait until they're 67.

Tapandgo · 13/02/2018 20:19

bluelady
Yes, the same group that had university expenses to find when grants were pulled (again, no chance to save up for it). Not being able to get your pension til 67 - yet not always fit to still do your job full time at 67. So forced to work to survive - or retire and have no money to survive.

Bluelady · 13/02/2018 20:28

No, not the same group. Tuition fees and student loans started in 1998. We got grants and our fees paid for us.

Ll81 · 13/02/2018 20:42

Anyone over 50 who is likley to get a state pension will probably still go down as one of the very lucky.

State pensions were only ever supposed to be for people to live for a few years on. Not 30 or so years. Pil only one ever worked in one job at local government. Didn't have the hell of reapplying for jobs and the pressure people had these days and by all accounts was much easier. Between. Them they have been drawing state pensions for almost 50 years despite only one of them working for less than 30 years.

Tapandgo · 13/02/2018 20:48

blue maybe I wasn’t clear enough.
I’m talking about our children - my kids got not grant and I had to find the means to support them (as well as them get loans). A bit more run up to this would have meant I could have started ‘college funds’. This was also around the time we found out our Endowment mortgages (our savings plan) were worthless.

Bluelady · 13/02/2018 20:50

I can beat that! My dad drew his state pension for 34 years. My mum got hers for 37 years. He worked for 44 years, she worked outside the home for 20 years.

meredintofpandiculation · 13/02/2018 20:52

Bluelady that's an interesting point. Wait an extra 7 years, lose £44k in pension, so get partial compensation in the form of an extra £33pw (£34k over 20 years).

(Of course, not so good for those who had to wait an extra 3 years, losing£19k and not getting the new pension rate)

But you have highlighted an absurdity that I hadn't realised - delay pension age to save money then give 3/4 of it back in the form of universal higher pension. (rather than, for example, freezing state pension and raising the means tested pension credit)

Thehogfather · 13/02/2018 20:53

tap as blue said I used the word chance too. There are any number of pensioners that worked long hours in less than pleasant jobs, and scrimped to make ends meet who never got chance to pay into a private pension. Plus plenty of women who were prevented from having a career due to society and subsequently don't have private pensions of their own.

So yes, anyone who had the chance to pay enough into a private pension was lucky.

Same goes for my generation.

And I really don't think many, if any, wealthy pensioners claim state pension for no net gain.

I do sympathise with anyone hit by the moving goalposts, because I'd expect the same empathy regarding my generation being the first who got hit by rising house prices when it wasn't what we expected.

Realistically it's only been one generation that really got to retire in reasonable health, traditionally and from now on it is back to the old idea of a short retirement when you're already in bad health.

Economically it just isn't viable to give every generation decades of retirement. But if we had a system that provided for low income workers, it wouldn't be an issue if someone had to drop the ft career at 60 for health reasons, and take on an easier or pt role.

Queuejumper · 13/02/2018 21:23

My dad retired at 54. 20 odd years ago now...he retired when I was 18.

My mum stopped work bar the odd shift when I was born.

Tapandgo · 13/02/2018 22:04

My parents got too few years in retirement, one died after short illness, one died suddenly. They therefore didn’t burden the NHS or care system and collected very little by way of pension out of the system they paid into. Swings and roundabouts.

Graphista · 13/02/2018 22:21

"Its because people in need are being told theres no money to help them, while they watch pensioners on a much higher income and with big assets being given the free bus passes they are told are not available for them. Its not difficult to see why they are not happy."

Not just bus passes, winter fuel payments, free tv licence, prescriptions (outside Scotland), eye tests, railcards, retail discounts...

I don't begrudge them for the pensioners that aren't so well off but those like my parents and several of my aunts and uncles who are VERY well off but still claim/use them - yes I think that's wrong.

"Because they are a useful voting block, pensioners as a group get a lot of things that aren't economically justified or efficient." Exactly.

I'm politically engaged/active, I vote, I communicate with my MP and others in politics. What else am I meant to do? And if we're talking politics what's stopping pensioners from voting for parties that have fairer policies? From supporting the generation containing their children and grandchildren?

What's actually happening now is other pensioners are suffering as a result. The cuts to social care and nhs affect pensioners more than most other demographics.

beyond absolutely - there's pensioners that need more that aren't getting it because it's going to pensioners that really don't need it.

There's a fair few I know need reminding there's no pockets in a shroud.

Own homes, buy cars, have holidays, enjoy retirement but NOT at the expense of others inc other pensioners.

My dad retired at 49, with a very nice military pension (taxpayers paying for that) he's been retired longer than he worked there!

Mum didn't always work full-time even after we were grown and gone so the "they worked hard they earned it" doesn't really always stack up either.

"Between. Them they have been drawing state pensions for almost 50 years despite only one of them working for less than 30 years." Exactly

One of my aunts is worse off BECAUSE she cared for my gran for years, decades while the other siblings continued in their careers and were able to contribute not only to state pension but private pensions, isa's etc too.

"Boomers just like to believe the world is exactly the same for the yoof today and any problems are their own fault nothing to do with the seismic shifts that are widely recognised." Yes, my mum is slightly more aware than my dad who is completely blinkered (he still thinks it's possible to leave a job Friday and walk into a new one Monday), the less well off aunts and uncles are also more conscious of how things currently are than the wealthy ones (who have bus and rail passes and accept their winter fuel payments - even though they're often on holiday in the winter, for months at a time).

I also think it's ridiculous pensioners in social housing that's far bigger than they need - that's what the bedroom tax was presented as addressing but not what happened. A lone pensioner does not need to be in a 3-bed front n back garden house.

"Do wealthy people travel by bus?" Yes my family members all from a big city where it's mainly easier to get around by public transport than be stuck in traffic jams and pay extortionate parking charges, so they never bothered learning to drive. I'm sure this isn't very unusual.

"You can't rely on inheritence, or it could come too late to be of any practical use."

"or those who think my generation just aren't trying hard enough, with no acknowledgement that things have changed." That's what my dad and the better off aunts and uncles are like.

Both my parents are from big families too and are the eldest, the less well off siblings are the youngest ones who are nearer my age. There's tension among the siblings because the older better off ones just don't get it.

"It is grim to read resentment of the ‘make do and mend’ generation who learned to live within their means and not to expect to have it all." Generalisation works both ways - my parents weren't "make do and mend" most of dads wages were spent at the pub!

"because they had paid into the system ~ and this would entitle them to take out from the system" not how it works - which is what those on working age benefits are told repeatedly.

"The younger generations know they will have to take out private pensions and financially plan for retirement

but take a look at the reality - they are NOT ACTUALLY DOING IT." They often can't AFFORD to.

"Pensioners are not the ones emptyjng the pot." Except they are, pensions are the biggest benefit sector, nhs and social care spending mostly on pensioners. Not saying that's wrong in principle but it is emptying the pot.

Things aren't so different for some of us now, I've no curtains as can't afford, no shower either, watching every penny and currently worried sick about further cuts to disability benefits. I only have the heating on when dd home to save money so I stay in bed wrapped up to stay warm. No fancy pay tv, no wild nights out, no new clothes/shoes since I can't remember when, don't smoke/drink/drugs/fancy food... My parents had it easier than dd and I ever have her whole childhood.

"Why do you think people have private pensions through luck"

Because all wealth is about luck

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

"Many people pay in to private pensions and do so by not spending on something else." There are families with 2 full time working parents needing to use FOOD BANKS and not due to irresponsible spending, where are they supposed to find money for a private pension?

Re they studied and weren't earning - no but they weren't running up £10,000's of student debt either!