to be annoyed that so many on mn seem to begrudge pensioners?

[Slartybartfast]

for mainly being too rich
so many of you seem to think that those who have retired at 65 and are likely enough to have a good pension have somehow cheated

Great post 👏

I find the antagonism expressed here towards pensioners as an economically privileged group quite threatening and out of proportion to my reality.

In rl my only experience of antagonism towards pensioners is when those who are privileged fail to recognise that other pensioners and other generations don't get the same chance. Or when pensioners from that same privileged group start banging on about how they are poor old pensioners.

Like any sector of society, it's only the idiotic minority that annoy people.

Hogfather I'm referring to some posters on this thread. Especially references to how long pensioners are living and how much of an economic burden they are. Sends shivers down my spine.

Because all wealth is about luck
Simply not true ~ if you get money though accidental good fortune, that is luck, but it’s rare.

I think a key word in most posts is the word some. There are as many experiences as people.

There are things the young can do themselves to minimise the impact of changing circumstances and improve their future security and it doesn’t involve expecting the older generation to be deprived in any way. Nor does it involve luck.

To recieve the same amount as the state pension would require a private pension pot of £250,000, yes, a quarter of a million pounds.
As ever with benefits, most, say 7 in ten never pay in what they recieve.
Is it possibly guilt or realisation that makes people thrash around blaming others, finding someone who gets more or pays in less? Perhaps we should be thankful of what we have with the welfare state?

YY Nina 22 There is a scathing response a page or two back to the poster who said her mum retired at 70 and has just her state pension which proves your point beautifully and the lack of posters who pulled her up on it proves its not just rich pensioners being targetted in this thread.

"Because all wealth is about luck
Simply not true ~ if you get money though accidental good fortune, that is luck, but it’s rare." Did you look at the link I posted? That explains what I mean. There's also an excellent Ted talk somewhere on same.

Personally I'm very concerned for the poorer pensioners that are losing out as a result of universal benefits/perks too

Graph i knew you would be

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/11/dont-blame-older-people-in-big-homes-for-housing-crisis

Nobody wants the older generation to be deprived. But nor do I think someone doing the same job now, working just as hard and being just as prudent with money should be living a lower quality of life than the past generation, and looking forward to a much later and much poorer retirement.

I'm a professional with a degree, and I have a similar quality of life to that an ex warehouse foreman had. Except he supported a wife and several dc, I have 1 dd. I'd be more than happy if I ever get the retirement they have, but nobody is selling me a council house I can pay off by 60, so that won't happen.

I don't expect people like that to be deprived of anything they've earned. But neither do I think that I should be happy about contributing to much wealthier pensioners enjoying a lifestyle I never will, and that would be a pipe dream for poorer pensioners now. Or happy to contribute to care so expensive property can be handed to their dc.

@MrsPear
"And yes I am angry. I am angry that a whole section of society is all take and no give. I am also fed up with with the proganda and language used. The fast majority of pensioners are fit, healthy and wealthy not weak, ill and poor."

Anger is irrational and has led you to talk utter bollocks. "A whole section of society" does no such thing. And the statistics say different. Most pensioners are NOT healthy or well off.

Did Not Do the Research, as they say online.

I recall reading somewhere a while back that means testing cost more than it would save in the case of bus passes. Anything that cuts back on the soaring cost of administration can't be all bad.

I am a bb. I was born in 1952 and until I was 12 lived in a house with no central heating so we had frost on the windows in winter. We didn't have many clothes (too expensive) and a lot of toys were second hand or home made. My mother made me a dolls house out of cardboard boxes one Christmas.

When I grew up and married we bought a flat in a not particularly nice part of south London and gradually managed to move up to a larger house which we had to sell and downsize to help fund our retirement. My husband had to sell his business for not much money as printing got much more difficult. He could have sold for more but was able to ensure that all his employees kept their jobs when he was bought out although he would have been within his rights to just walk away as it was a limited company.

We moved to the SW where property is cheaper and we have some capital to help increase our income from our pensions although savings only get very little income. We do use our bus passes but we need them.

Not all pensioners are wealthy.

Plenty of people didn't have central heating much later than that larry.

The flat we rented in the early 90s and both houses we bought in 1996 and 2006 didn't have it but we were fortunate to be able to put it in both our houses.

But if you own a property outright, and have capital and even a state pension that would been paid since your early to mid 60s, you are wealthy and are in a position that many younger people will struggle to match when their time comes.

They won't get their pension until 68 at the earliest and are unlikely to make the sort of money you have from property, if they can ever afford to buy at all. Will they even get a free bus pass when the time comes?

It's this sort of attitude that people are complaining about. People like you seem to have no appreciation as to how good you have had it compared to today's 20 and 30 somethings.

I am 44 and was lucky to buy a property early and have kept a secure job since I was 18. I thank my lucky stars every day for this. I will never be able to release much money by downsizing because my property is a cheap northern one, but it is still an asset and a roof over my head.

Even I am so, so fortunate compared to a lot of younger people faced with job insecurity and expensive housing. And you are in a much better position than people like me.

tilly maybe so. But in that case why aren't all children and students given free bus passes? We aren't unusual outside London in that the only transport help for children is for school, provided you meet strict criteria about which school and are at very low income.

Or give all working age people on any means tested benefit from child benefit to jsa free travel?

I am a pensioner and need a bus pass and winter fuel allowance, but i do agree pensioners with wealth shouldnt get them, i used to clean for a couple who were quite wealthy, and they saved their pension for holidays abroad and didnt hide the fact, they owned several businesses , and were not the best payers for cleaning either,
If workmen came to do any jobs in the house while i was there i made them a cup of tea, and was told not to in future

While I don’t like the pensioner bashing tone of this thread I reslly don’t understand why male and female Londoners get a free bus and tube travel pass from age 60 even though the retirement age has shifted. Is it the same for the rest of the country?

I don't have any problem with rich/well off pensioners at all. The only thing I do have a problem with is if they go on with the attitude that younger generations don't have what they have because they don't work as hard or because they have Sky tv/mobile phones yada yada yada.

My ex fil is in his 80s now and has enjoyed a long retirement (he retired at 60) with many many holidays around the Uk and abroad. Good for him on one respect because he only had an ordinary job and was very fortunate to be able to do that but then when you hear his rants about why younger generations won't enjoy the same you just think oh fuck off!

My DM got her state pension and bus pass at her state pension age of 64, a few months ago. DF was a bit older than her so got his bus pass when he was 60, as the retirement age for women was 60 at the time, but the bus pass age (for both men and women I assume) has increased here (northern England) as the women's state pension age has increased.

N Barbara the reavel pass in London is still from 60. A friend was 60 last week and has just got hers

My dd is 25 and sil 27 and they have managed to buy a 3 bed semi. They lived at home with parents until they were 23 and 25 so that they could save. We were able to pay for their wedding because we want to get them started in their own home as we were able to so we are helping the younger generation.

Dd is on maternity leave at the moment but when she goes back to work we will be looking after dgc two days a week (for nothing) to again help them.

I have just received my tax code for next financial year. On the back is a breakdown on how our money is spent by the government. The biggest slice of the pie by far is on welfare, followed fairly closely by nhs. Pensions come in a much smaller third. Welfare of course includes all sorts of tax credits as well as disability, and unemployment payments. It occurs to me that many people's tax credits are higher than others state pensions. Kettle calling pot black springs to mind here!

larry you're missing the point. Not everyone has parents able or willing to do that. And your dc clearly aren't in nmw jobs if they've been able to do that, because their upbringing with financially secure, involved parents has given them the chance for that outcome. And not everyone gets those opportunities.

The difference is that in a past generation someone without the advantages and support your dc had/ have, still had a reasonable shot at making it on their own.

I'm only 30's, and had dd young and was skint without support. But even doing that 14yrs ago was a hell of a lot easier than someone needing to move out at 18 now and support themselves. I couldn't get social housing then, but private was still only slightly more expensive at the time and for the most part the cost reflected the nicer house. And I got an accidental ll who prefers a long term tenant to greedy profit.

Now, I'm earning a reasonable salary but couldn't dream of renting a house like mine nearby, let alone in a more upmarket area. My rent would only get a rundown tiny flat with a dodgy ll, and in a much worse area too. Not to mention that the extra housing cost now would have made me sell the car, which round here means you have very limited job opportunities, usually zero hours nmw.

I can recognise it's harder for people only 10/15yrs younger than me, so I think you should be able to acknowledge your own greater opportunities.