to be annoyed that so many on mn seem to begrudge pensioners?

[Slartybartfast]

for mainly being too rich
so many of you seem to think that those who have retired at 65 and are likely enough to have a good pension have somehow cheated

Well both my parents and DPs parents were born in the late 40s or early 50s so are all boomers and certainly were of the 'make do and mend generation'. And that's how we've been brought up and in some sense, still practice today.

I'm not sure their standard of living was significantly lower for most of their lives. The main thing you can say is that they didn't have a load of crap that people have today that people don't really need or take pleasure from.

We are now in an age of 'peak stuff' and 'peak pressure' and people are stepping back because it's not always life enhancing to always be rushing around trying to do and acquire more. TO paraphrase Tyler Durden in fight club 'we are stuck in jobs we hate to buy stuff we don't need to impress people we don't like'.

I suppose it depends on the definition of make do and mend! Certainly darning socks and more seriously general thriftiness were much practised in the 1950s and 60s!

Not that I am accusing people these days of being extravagant either - but I do think that there was a significantly lower standard of living in the 1950s and 60s, which affected dc as well as adults - central heating much less widespread for one thing!

I don't know, my parents never went without as either adults or children, and nor did my grandparents. Certainly never darned a sock or went without central heating.

The younger generations know they will have to take out private pensions and financially plan for retirement

but take a look at the reality - they are NOT ACTUALLY DOING IT.

Many can't afford to. And are still paying their contributions etc to National Insurance with no guarantee they will get anything.

"Bringing in means testing would be a very costly exercise and lead to a spend spend spend mentality will no incentive to save (and even less incentive to contribute into a system you won’t benefit from)."

Yes I agree with both those points.

I do also agree as a pp said that some of the more material things we have now don't make people any happier. On the other hand some of the less material aspects have also improved greatly since the early bboomers time - such as not leaving school at 15 (not unusual before 1970, so that is a significant proportion of bboomers.)

I’m against inequality and this is state sponsored inequality. And yes I am angry. I am angry that a whole section of society is all take and no give. I am also fed up with with the proganda and language used. The fast majority of pensioners are fit, healthy and wealthy not weak, ill and poor.

Oh and as I said bringing in means testing will not be another cost just make the free stuff dependent on tax credits.

"I don't know, my parents never went without as either adults or children, and nor did my grandparents. Certainly never darned a sock or went without central heating."

Just looked up and 30% of houses in UK had central heating in 1970 so grandparents with ch as children would have been a minority I think. I doubt that there are statistics for sock darning though!

Well, we are asking the young generation to repay student loans, pay a very high proportion of earnings in rent (in some areas at least), pay huge multiples of earnings if they are lucky enough to be able to buy.

So I can see why they may not be prioritising their pensions at the moment!

(On the other hand, lower income tax rates, much better maternity provision, than in the 1970s, so I suppose there is some swings and roundabouts. The real difference is the rise in housing costs I think.)

There was a lot of thriftiness in the 50’s and 60’s and a whole mentality of ‘saving for a rainy day’. Life was thriftier with lower standard of comfort for many. The children of that time did not have the throwaway mentality we have now.
I don’t recall anybody thinking they could take a year off without working to ‘backpack’. Those living in 1944 saw the school leaving age going up to 15! (Think how long some people had to work). It went up again to 16 in 1972 and unless going to university, people went to work full time at 16.
Sometimes today people want everything now ~ and get in to debt to make it happen, slavishly feeling the need to keep up with trends in furniture, kitchens, clothes etc etc. We spend a lot more on things that are not essential ~ just nice to have or to do.

Life is different, but it’s not up to the older generation to bail us out. They have done their bit.

I don't think childhood standard of living is relevant. If pensioner 1 grew up in a slum and pensioner 2 came from a wealthy, privileged home, if they both end up in the same situation at 70 we wouldn't say pensioner 2 didn't deserve the same standard of living.

Compared to kids from low income homes in the 90's, those living under the current reforms and those who grew up in the 70's/80's had a much tougher time, but I don't think anyone would suggest the latter groups should have better retirements than the 90's generation.

Ll that's not really reflective. When dd was a baby/ toddler I kept 2 of us on similar to state pension. But as a young, active person I had avenues open to me that many pensioners don't. Even hauling heavy shopping, and the energy to go round dozens of cheap shops isn't an option if you're elderly and isolated. I bet my shopping for 2 cost less than a pensioner limited physically. Even if I was too skint for petrol I could walk, or dress up warm and go to the park for hours if I couldn't afford the heating all day in winter. If the washer or fridge had broken I'd have walked carrying stuff on the pram till I could replace it. Many pensioners don't have those options.

Also if you've ever lived in real poverty, the one thing that keeps you sane is knowing it isn't forever, but for pensioners it is so they need an income above survival.

Practically anyone can live on £20 for a week, or £70 a week for a few months. It's when it becomes a year or years that physically things need replacing, and that mentally it gets hard.

I’m a wealthy 60+ year old- I’d happily swap with a 30 something for a scraping by lifestyle,!!
Ok rich pensioners can be a pain but they are a short stones throw from degenerative diseases and dementia!! It does have its downsides!

So back to the op and the thread she linked to.

Yabu it was re means testing of benefits. It is unfair that oaps are immune to it. I'm 50 and have worked all my life,struggled at times,saved at times yada yada. My CB is means tested;why can't oaps 15 years older have their universal benefits means tested to?

By all means have that cruise but don't expect universal benefits you don't need. Yes let's protect and give to those pensioners that need it; not to those that don't please. Twisting that as anti pensioner is clasping at straws. Oap universal benefits are unfair when other sections of society have lost theirs.

Depends what you mean by universal benefits. If you're talking about state pension I paid for mine with 44 years of NI contributions so you'll have to prise that out of my cold dead hands. If you're talking about bus passes, free prescriptions and heating allowance, by all means link them to tax credits.

BUT, call me cynical, if that happened I'd bet a lot the money saved wouldn't be given to pensioners who really need it. The Treasury would take it back and it would sink without trace.

I didn't link a thread, as I said there was more than one thread portraying pensioners negatively, mainly the boomers, since pensioners can cover 40 years!

Like CB then Blue. No wasn't talking about pensions but all the rest. There is no need for many to have it. Either stop means testing CB or means test the lot.

Actually child benefit makes my blood boil. That a couple earning almost £100k get it and a single parent on £50k doesn't is so unjust it's almost unbelievable. But yes, take everything except my pension and give the money to pensioners who need it, by all means.

Oh come off it, you can't surely rely on cb if you earn that much, you are just being greedy

blue I agree that I wouldn't trust any party to redistribute any non means tested benefits to those who need it. More in an ideal world.

I wouldn't want it limiting to tax credit levels, but again in an ideal world I would look at state pension too. Someone with a high private pension, property and savings, after decades of job satisfaction should not be entitled to the same state pension as say a farm labourer who worked harder, longer hours and is still renting with no other income.

And not saying that you personally shouldn't be entitled to a state pension, but I don't think how many years you paid n.i is relevant. Partly because we all pay for the generation above us, rather than it being a saving scheme. Partly because if you'd never contributed through disability or carers duties, I wouldn't think you were less entitled.

Again shouldn't reflect entitlement and I don't blame pensioners for it, but they are the biggest cost for the nhs, so most of those taxes and n.i. paid in by today's pensioners could be described as covering that cost, rather than the cost of perks or the cost of a state pension however wealthy.

blue yy re couples getting cb on double the income

Life is different, but it’s not up to the older generation to bail us out. They have done their bit.

^

Actually, it is. That's was paying taxes is for.

crackerjacket The older generation do pay taxes.

Sorry but I have to disagree. I had a contract with successive governments for over 40 years. I paid my NI and at the end of it I got my pension. They moved my pension age back twice as it was and got another four years contributions out of me.

I take nothing from the NHS at the moment. I do realise that my current rude health may not last but hopefully it will and when dementia claims me (as it almost certainly will based on genetic evidence) the NHS won't be paying for my care, I will.

No my main bug bear about pensioners is that they think they have this sense of entitlement. We worked so hard, we survived the war, in our day yadda yadda yadda.

They have no empathy for today's young. And view them with destain and annoyance. I'd rather be a child of the 70s than a child of the 00's any day!