If you had money to burn, would you use a surrogate?

[Hippiesip]

Say you're having difficulty TTC a second or third child, would you pay for an American surrogate if you simply didn't want to wait/go through the pregnancy?

I think I would. I loved creating my son but pregnancy was extremely difficult for me mentally and emotionally. I would rather not doing it again, but still growing our family.

Surrogates are paid in the US. The surrogate usually dictates the cost! It can be an amazing source of income for some.
In the UK we are not paid we are reimbursed expenses.

I wouldn’t cos I’m too old but I would have. And I’d have paid for my childhood friend too. She didn’t want kids until she was nearly 40. Fell pregnant and lost it, lost both tubes Too abs fell pregnant again finally on round 5 of ivf. And lost it 😞
So yeah I would for her

But then my Dd IS a surrogate baby as I’m infertile

I’m genuinely not sure i could do it fo non fertility reasons. Like not wanting to lose figure or stop working.

I think it's very easy for people who already have children of their own to sit here and smugly pontificate about why surrogacy is wrong, and pass moral judgement on others whose path to parenthood has not run so smoothly.

I think it's very easy for people who already have children of their own to sit here and smugly pontificate about why surrogacy is wrong, and pass moral judgement on others whose path to parenthood has not run so smoothly.

I'm sorry but that's nonsense, there are plenty of us who have suffered with infertility who still wouldn't dream of it.

Having children is not a right to which we are all entitled, as sad as that may be (and believe me I have been there).

Kit it isn't pontificating to highlight some major issues with surrogacy. It might be difficult for some to read if they've been in that position but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be talked about. Also you don't know what any poster's background is, or why they've come to hold the beliefs they do.

Using your logic there, it's very easy for someone who hasn't been through pregnancy to not appreciate just how shit, scary and life threatening it can be - smugly pontificating about why surrogacy is their right, passing moral judgement on women who do have issues with it.

Glad that isn't my logic, or I'd sound awful

Poffley, there are people on this thread who have used surrogacy because they were unable to carry their own children. No matter your reasoning it is unspeakably smug and condescending to say to them that not everyone is entitled to have children - when you have have them yourself. Because you're alright, Jack. It's easy to pass judgement when it's happening to other people.

I have no horse in this race either way, I'm neither for or against surrogacy in the context that the OP is talking about - which is in the US, where it can take place within the law. What I do have is empathy for the fact that it is impossible to know what lengths some people will go to when the path to parenthood is difficult.

How do you know the posters with issues around surrogacy all have children? There have been a number who've posted saying they don't and don't agree with surrogacy even still.

Have to admit this article made me laugh just now

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-43062264

'They have not revealed any more details about the pregnancy, including whether or not a surrogate is involved.'

Well they're not carrying it in their testicles are they?

Good for them though.

kits there is never an excuse to exploit another woman, including infertility. There's a reason many uk women physically able to be surrogates don't do so, and it isn't because we don't give a shit about infertility. It's because mentally or for some morally we wouldn't feel comfortable handing over a baby we carried. When you then bribe someone to do it, it is no longer about the woman's free will and becomes exploitation.

I'd qualify to be a paid surrogate in the US, and if the money would make a huge difference to dd's quality of life, eg if she needed private treatment or similar, I would be choosing between the guilt on dd's behalf if I didn't and my true feelings on handing over a baby I carried. And nobody should have to face that dilemma for the benefit of someone infertile. Let alone women in dire poverty in other countries.

If infertile people can't find a uk woman to do it for altruistic reasons then that should tell them all they need to know about how many women genuinely want to be surrogates.

No.

I used to think I’d offer to be a surrogate but as I’ve aged and had my own children I really disagree with it as a practice. Plus, I wouldn’t do it myself because I know regardless where the genetic material comes from I know gestating a baby would cause me an attachment I wouldn’t be able to let go of.

If infertile people can't find a uk woman to do it for altruistic reasons then that should tell them all they need to know about how many women genuinely want to be surrogates.

The legal framework in the UK is one barrier - the lack of pre birth orders doesn't offer protection to either surros or IPs. As @mustbemad17 has outlined, as a surro herself who would strongly advocate for pre birth orders, the current framework for parental orders means surros have no protection if IPs were to hypothetically change their mind. As well as vice versa for IPs.

Most surros in the community I know would strongly advocate for pre birth orders without wishing to move to commercial surrogacy (and without sacrificing bodily autonomy, of course).

Canada has a mix of the different systems. They do not permit commercial surrogacy - like the UK it has to be altruistic and expenses only. But they have pre birth orders and regulated agencies who can vet surros and IPs and facilitate matches (in the UK it happens independently because it is illegal to advertise to be / for a surrogate, illegal for a lawyer to be involved in a surrogacy agreement, and illegal to facilitate a surrogacy match). So there is greater legal protection for all parties within the context of altruistic surrogacy

Quite rightly, many women who would like to be surros in the UK who join the FB groups to find a match, say they feel unprotected by UK law - they don't want to risk bring left with a baby they don't want if the IPs were to split up or change their mind

@DianaPrincessOfThemyscira do you disagree with surrogacy overall in all circumstances (incl altruistic surrogacy as in the UK)? Or just commercial surrogacy as in the US?

Loads of people disagree with it. But not to my actual real live face

No one knows what they’d do in someone else’s shoes

My surrogate suggested the whole thing out of the blue. If she hadn’t, I’d have never have thought of it I don’t think

The thing is that a woman is not just a "vessel" for a foetus, is she?

As soon as the fertilised egg implants, that baby's cells, carrying DNA, start to mix in with the mother's blood. That's how blood tests done on the mother at 10 weeks or so can tell the sex of the baby and whether the baby has any chromosomal defects. A surrogate doesn't just carry a baby as though in an internal handbag, her and the baby's cells intermingle.

I had very medicalised and high risk pregnancies. One thing I got out of it all was a real insight into what we know and do not know about pregnancy, and there us some evidence to suggest that it is a highly symbiotic relationship between mother and child. There's some evidence to suggest foetal cells can end up in unexpected places in a woman's body; there was one journal article I read where they suspected foetal cells had actually influenced a pregnant woman's cancerous tumour and caused it to shrink.

We just don't know enough about the mechanisms involved in pregnancy vis a vis maternal and infant health and development to ethically state that surrogacy is not in some way harmful to gestational mother or child. With that in mind, I think surrogacy undertaken for reasons of convenience is somewhat dubious and irresponsible.

Horrified at the number of women on this thread who think it’s ok to rent another woman’s womb and see her go through pregnancy and childbirth then separate mother and baby at birth.

Do you feel the same about surrogacy where a womb isn't being 'rented', where it's an altruistic arrangement? My friend really wants to be a surrogate, to give couples who can't have children the opportunity to have a family of their own. She would ideally like to do 4 surrogacy journeys, 1 for each of her own children. Her worry isn't being separated from a baby after pregnancy and birth, it's what if IPs changed their minds and she was left with someone else's baby?

She has offered to surro for my husband and I - in her words, to be the oven for our bun, in the hope of enabling one of our frozen embryos to become a person. We don't yet know how we will proceed. She wouldn't be paid, as is the law in the UK

Any surrogate in the UK can decide to keep the baby if they want. No one separates them after the birth if that's not what she wants. It's not how it works!

Are you horrified at this kind of loving generosity that is how surrogacy works in the UK, or just commercial surrogacy as in the US?

Yep bananafish i feel very strongly that more pre-birth rulings need to be in place to protect IPs. I've said it several times here but in my personal experience - i've been on the surrogacy scene since 2014 - it is IPs that are open to exploitation, both here & in the US. I could post some horror stories i won't because altho few & far between people take them as exact indications of the whole surrogacy world of surrogates literally holding IPs to ransom, and of people connected facilitating this.

I've met one vulnerable surrogate, a lady who was coerced into it - not by IPs but by somebody who enabled matches for profit - but ime the IPs are the vulnerable ones. We literally hold their dreams in our hands.

@bananafish81 I disagree with all forms because I don’t believe a woman can carry a child for 9 months and not feel an attachment.

I’m sure some would disagree, this is a very personal belief based on my own feelings since I have become a mother. I don’t think I could separate my feelings. And I think it’s cruel to all concerned if the surrogate changes her mind.

I’m sorry if this upsets you, this is why I generally avoid conversations like this, because I know it is upsetting

I’m on the side of not agreeing at all, but I think the situations I would be okay with personally are on a scale...

I’d put your situation at about a 2 in my imaginary scale, bananafish (1 would be a blood relative, I think). American commercial surrogacy would be maybe a seven and non-western commercial surrogacy at about a nine. Then full on slavery would be at ten.

Obviously I hope this doesn’t come across as me saying you agree with slavery or anything like that. That is honestly not my intention but I know how mn can be sometimes!!

Just that - while I personally disagree with surrogacy - you are very much at the end I am most comfortable with :)

Diana i can say without any hesistation I have absolutely no attachment to my surrobaby. I have a feeling of pride in her, & i take an interest in her life & wellbeing, but handing her to her dads & watching them walk out the door with her after birth didn't leave me weepy or distraught. I'm carrying my own DS now & the fierce protective instinct i have over him matches that of when i carried my DD nearly 6 years ago.

The difference is i went into my surro journey knowing the baby was not mine. It's hard to explain but everything about my pregnancy with her was different - i wanted her safe & did everything i needed to, just ad i do with my own. But i didn't bond with her

I can understand that must, I can understand not being attached to a baby that wasn’t “yours” as much as one that was. I’m good at compartmentalising

It’s the health risk that I can’t come to terms with. Not only was I mentally ill in pregnancy, I also became physically disabled after my second dc. No reason to suspect that was coming from my first, I was fine after him.

What an interesting question. My instinct would be 'no way', but on the other hand, if money could take away the sleepless nights and the aching body, not forgetting the morning/afternoon/night sickness, then why not

Beyond yeah i get that. I had a great pregnancy with my DD, and surrobub also. This time with my DS i feel shocking, i actually hate it. This has led me to the decision that i would be irresponsible to offer to be a surrogate again in the future. To me, if you know you have had a crappy pregnancy, you don't be a surrogate - obviously going beyond the baseline morning sickness etc. Likewise had i had a c-section with DD, i wouldn't have done surrogacy.

I disagree with the social surrogacy that happens in the US as well as several other practice around enabling couples to have children because i don't think you should take on a surrogate simply because it will ruin your body.

@DianaPrincessOfThemyscira not upsetting - all healthy debate and discussion, but thank you for your kindness, it's very much appreciated

Most people can't imagine how it would be possible to carry a child and not become emotionally attached. I know I certainly can't!

But that's the point. You and I can't imagine how a woman could carry a child for 9 months and not feel that way. You say it's your personal feelings - and rightfully so. But the women who become surrogates don't share this view. Their surrogacy pregnancies are emotionally completely different to their own pregnancies. That's why implications counselling prior to embarking on surrogacy is so very very crucial.

Because you don't believe it's possible for a surro to embark on a surrogate pregnancy and have it be a rewarding and fulfilling experience, should those women who DO find it to be rewarding and fulfilling not be allowed to do so?

I wonder how your 'surrobaby' might feel about that when she is older. She came from your egg and you gave birth to her. You are the only 'mother' she has yet you feel no attachment to her yet you do for her siblings that you have had both before and after her. I think that could be a very painful thing for her to come to terms with, twee language aside.