To think it's sad that take-up of Shared Parental Leave is just 2 per cent?

[AHedgehogCanNeverBeBuggered]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43026312

DH and I are sharing parental leave between us, 9 months for me and 3 months for him. Whenever he tells anyone the response has been universally positive, generally praising him for doing this. When I've told other women they've often reacted with shock, saying they'd never give up some of 'their' leave to their DH/DP. We know another couple who have had huge rows over this - they'd initially planned to share leave 9/3 like us but at 6 months the DW backed out and said she was keeping it all to herself.

I think if women are ever going to achieve equality in the workplace then more men should be encouraged to take up this scheme, but what if women don't want them to? I feel very strongly that a man should be entitled to time off to bond with his child, but our friends' situation has made me wonder whether it's right to allow the mother to make the decision unilaterally (although as she has to carry the child and give birth it kind of makes sense to have first dibs, although fathers do seem to be pushed out here).

Thoughts? Should we be encouraging more men to take this up or something different?

Lemonshark sums it up beautifully.

Yes, I also think a 'use it or lose it' paternity leave is the only way.

Someone in real life told me that my plan to return at 5.5 months after my due date was impractical and silly. It panicked me, but my mum reminded me that she took three months with me and a) we both survived (and I was breastfed, as part of mixed feeding, until a year) and b) we're incredibly close, and were throughout my childhood. I completely respect any woman's choice to take the full year or longer, but the idea that its an indispensable necessity is quite recent.

The main reason its not used it does NOT offer the same legal protection that ML you can be easily fired if you attempt PL beyond the legal minium of 2 weeks and the man would have no re course.

Make Pertanity leave legally the same then you will have a massive uptake.

Because like i previosly said my friend took pertintly leave and was fired..... he could not take them to court as it is no where near same legal protections.

I am confused by the number of posters who did this yet state they 'feel sad' that others don't? Why are they concerned about what others do? I would hate to have returned to work before my dc were a year old but I don't feel sad for others who have made a different choice

At the end of the day, the option is there for families and it is up to them to decide how they want to split their leave. I don't think it is for others to judge those choices.

I think you need to remember that not everyone is in the same situation as you. Eg I work long shifts with some nights and couldn't have returned whilst sustaining bf. I earn more than DH but we saved in advance for maternity as the pregnancies were planned. The option to split our leave came too late for us anyway but I know that it wouldn't have worked for either of us.

I would hate to think of women feeling pushed into stopping bf and leaving a very young baby just to please others...... imo that is not how nature intended it.

It’s a horrible statistic if there is such a low take up of the shared leave.

Why is this? There will never be parity in the home or workplace until childcare is a joint responsibility. From the earlier posts it appears that salary is one of the main reasons. Why are the men usually the higher earner? Do not women aim for high salaries and career progression. Sounds like too many women are accepting of lower paid jobs.

I think it's a good thing that the opportunity is there but I have to say I'd be one of those women who would have wanted to take the full amount myself. One of the main reasons was breastfeeding but also I was loving being with my baby full time and didn't want to go back to work. Before having my lo I would have been up for sharing though, but that definitely would have changed after I'd actually had him. Not sure what would have happened if my dh was really keen to take a share of it? I suppose we'd have had to try and work something out but fortunately that wasn't a decision I had to face. I'm all for sharing the responsibility in theory, but somehow my emotional connection to lo seems to drive me to take on the dominant caring role. I'm aware that I am essentially creating an inequality in parental care by doing this but somehow I can't stop myself!

It is interesting that the 2% statistic is against all men in the companies - I wonder what the equivalent figure would be for women so we could compare like with like?

In my office there seems to have been reasonable take up - generally fathers taking 1 or 2 months at the end of their partners maternity leave.

Yes lisasimpson.
I returned to work when dd was 12 weeks, totally normal back in the day, and I and most of my mum friends continued bf too

I’m not suggesting a return to this, because it’s good that ML is a more reasonable length now. But the 52 weeks is a relatively recent thing so it’s interesting that some people assume it’s a necessary thing and how could a mother possibly manage without it. Plenty of us did and our kids are fine! If shared leave had been around in my baby- days I’d have jumped at it. There wasn’t even a two week paternity leave back then. My dh had a day off with each baby

I'm a little baffled by women saying 'But I want my full year off work!' - I found going back to work to be a lovely break after being at home with DD for seven months! I had lunch breaks and adult company and everything DH was also grateful to return to work after his two months at home 'for a rest'.

It also made me appreciate that it is hard to come home and get straight into baby care without a break to decompress after work.

I agree with Babbity's comments about shorter maternity leaves - I was the only person I met who was only taking nine months (split 7/2 between me and DH), and I hadn't expected that I'd be the only one. We didn't have enough savings to cover the three unpaid months. It's interesting how quickly taking a year off has become the norm.

This just comes down to finances for us, could just about afford the drop in income for mat leave, could never afford drop in partners income. Also, partner got a new job during pregnancy so wasn't actually even entitled to paternity leave had to take it as annual leave.

If we have DC2 I'd like to share leave 9/3. With my first DH got 4 weeks of paternity leave, which we combined with annual leave to mean he was around for the first 2 months. It was great to have that time to bond as a family and to get back on my feet after the EMCS. We didn't go down the official shared leave route as the amount of paternity leave he got was generous, and I wasn't really sure how it would all work out. However, if we were to do it again I'd gladly share, and I think it's important for fathers to get involved in what day-to-day caring means, if we're going to break the 'default parent' assumption.

I'm a little baffled by women saying 'But I want my full year off work!' - I found going back to work to be a lovely break after being at home with DD for seven months!

People are different. I prefer to be at home and if finances allowed I would be a SAHP. I’m not baffled by those who prefer work though, it’s horses for courses.

Yes, I would have slightly resented swapping roles at 6 months, just when I was getting things under control. It would however have been a gift to my dc and to dh and would have better embedded equality in our relationship. At the time, finances would have had to trump everything else. I am encouraged to see the shift through my younger male colleagues - much more likely to work part time or take shared leave.

I don’t find it baffling, as everyone is different. I do find it ridiculous when people are inconsistent though- eg if you are going to insist on taking the full year of ML and not transferring any to the child’s father (and a number of people on here have said they would fall into that camp) then it’s no good saying in the next breath you want total equality, being upset that your career is impacted more than your dhs and moaning a few years down the line that he doesn’t do enough with the kids

I wanted to take the 9 months to bond with the baby, get my body back to some sort of normality and learn to be a mum before work kicked back in. Husband wanted to take leave too but I only get paid for 9. I was pregnant for 9 months and it was tough going, my body wasn't my own and I wanted that time off work and away from the stresses of work life to adjust to being a mum. With all due respect to hands on dads, babies need their mum and mums need their babies for a long time after birth

then it’s no good saying in the next breath you want total equality, being upset that your career is impacted more than your dhs and moaning a few years down the line that he doesn’t do enough with the kids

How many are inconsistent though? My husband does plenty with the children, at least 50-50 on evenings and weekends. If I get promoted in my job I will lose the client contact which is why I chose this career so I’m happy to stay where I am for the for the time being. Not everyone has high flying careers, or wants them.

Socks - why do you think babies need their mums more than their dads(breast feeding being the exception) and mums need their babies? DH wanted our DT’s as much as me, came to hospital appointments, classes, chose their cots and clothing etc. He was, and still is much a part of their life as me.

DH has recently been discussing his plans for his 3 months of SPL with his senior (mostly male) colleagues and many didn't know their organisation offered a good SPL package. He's had "that's amazing, maybe we should look into another baby" more than once.

I do think there is a cultural shift. Many of the men currently becoming dads I have met are genuinely keen to take more time with their kids on SPL. DH loved his two months at home with DS last time, and as a PP said, it certainly eased my return to work not to have any childcare logistics to worry about.

Parker - breastfeeding thing of course but I also feel like my body literally ached for my baby when he cried, he was so used to my sounds, smells and wanted me for comfort too. Surely it's like being back in the womb for them when they have a cuddle against their mum?

Thats not to say that dad's shouldn't have those times and opportunities with baby but I found that baby got more upset and wouldn't settle when with dad. I left the house several times to see if that helped when I wasn't there but he just wanted me and dad couldn't settle him at certain times

socks and rocks, that's not surprising though if you are always there and he isn't.
We did do everything (Inc feeding) from birth, and after the first week or two, where familiarity perhaps did help, it made no difference whatsoever. But then she spent ad much time with my husband as with me, so she bonded equally. Your experience that baby prefers mum maybe because you (and I don't mean this in an unfair way) monopolised spending that binding time with your baby, so their dad wasn't as familiar.

Socks - I think Mum or Dad are equally equipped to comfort and settle their baby. It’s not a case of Mum letting Dad have his turn.

I can see how you would think that but baby was in hospital for a week after being born and spent equal, if not more time with dad than me. He done all the bottle feeds as I was pumping. Dad had an hour of skin to skin when baby was born, I had 5 mins then baby was whisked off to NICU. I didn't establish BF until he was 2/3 weeks old so dad done most of the feeds until then. We tag teamed with sleep so it was all pretty equal, baby just settled with me and still does now

@socksandrocks I found the same, I assumed it was because although baby was used to DH's voice, mine was the one that he heard the most, therefore was most comforted by.

After maybe 7 or 8 months DC settled just as well for DH as me but still liked to fall asleep while feeding a lot, which DH clearly couldn't do.

To the pp who said she is baffled that anyone would want to take a year off - cannot you not see that we are all different? I absolutely adored being at home with the children and was so upset when my ML came to an end. Not everyone prefers to be away from their children!