To think it's sad that take-up of Shared Parental Leave is just 2 per cent?

[AHedgehogCanNeverBeBuggered]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43026312

DH and I are sharing parental leave between us, 9 months for me and 3 months for him. Whenever he tells anyone the response has been universally positive, generally praising him for doing this. When I've told other women they've often reacted with shock, saying they'd never give up some of 'their' leave to their DH/DP. We know another couple who have had huge rows over this - they'd initially planned to share leave 9/3 like us but at 6 months the DW backed out and said she was keeping it all to herself.

I think if women are ever going to achieve equality in the workplace then more men should be encouraged to take up this scheme, but what if women don't want them to? I feel very strongly that a man should be entitled to time off to bond with his child, but our friends' situation has made me wonder whether it's right to allow the mother to make the decision unilaterally (although as she has to carry the child and give birth it kind of makes sense to have first dibs, although fathers do seem to be pushed out here).

Thoughts? Should we be encouraging more men to take this up or something different?

Forgot to mention that if we had managed to make the finances work, the only reason it could have been successful is that I work very close to home so would have needed to pop out of work every few hours to feed dc. He didn't take a bottle of anything after 6 months.

Would be so much better if partners had more leave than just two weeks. Maybe leave that they could take when baby is a bit older too.

Sharing the parental leave saved our relationship. My partner was such a selfish twat (away with his hobbies every other weekend and one evening a week) and he'd come in from work quickly say hi then bugger off to the gym or to do his ironing (his only), baby was a determined bottle refuser too so I did all night shifts, all feeding, everything and was fast becoming very (openly) resentful of him.

I went back to work full time when baby was 5.5 months and he had 8 weeks at home. The change in him was immediate. He apologised. Put the hobbies on hiatus. Started to want to do things together as a family, arranged to go to the gym during his working day (once he was back at work). He's now so hands on and their relationship is just amazing. We are a team and share the load.
Alas baby 2 is on the way and he has just started a new job, won't have been there for long enough to qualify for shared parental leave this time.
But yes, we should encourage more shared parental leave, in my experience it's so good having someone else know how tough it can be to be alone with a baby day (and night)

DH took the statutory two weeks then 3 months unpaid and it was really good to have him at home for longer than the minimum amount. I could barely walk after two weeks! Also he got to see and do almost every aspect of baby care in those early months (I was bf so doing all the feeds). I wouldn't have wanted to share my maternity leave though I have to say. I feel it's my time with my baby and even though DH was great with DC, I still felt I did most of the housework and general day to day 'thinking and planning' and I feel that if I had gone back to work sooner and DH been at home I would still have had that to come back to after a full day of work. Not to mention that night feeding hasn't finished so I would feel so tired too! Men should be entitled to much better paternity leave rather than expecting women to sacrifice maternity leave. We have been very fortunate that we found a way to have the best of both for a short time and I don't think we will be able to do the same for any future children which makes me sad.

I think for it to ever work more widely it needs to be a use it or lose it time period that is paid to at least the same level. Women do need an initial time to recover and breastfeed if that is their choice.

After ds I had 8 months off, which was the most we could afford. Going back any earlier would have been challenging as he was a voracious breastfeeder and didn't take in much food at all in the early months. I had to sneak off twice a day at work to express in the loos and got mastitis when I tried cutting down as he was still feeding the same amount when I was there. Luckily I don't have an overly scheduled job, so was able to just split my lunch time.

I am pregnant again and would love dp to be able to share the leave this time, but again it won't be financially viable unless I go back before baby starts on food. I am also not convinced that dp would actually want to. It's much more full on than going to work!

We couldn't have afforded to split leave 50/50, but DH has taken a month at the end each time. I'd really recommend it. It is so much easier to settle back into work knowing that the baby is at home with dad rather than worrying about nursery straight away. It also resets things back on a more equal basis after 11 months of traditional gender roles. Finally, it's nice to be able to demand photos hourly, and come home to a cooked dinner.

I do think it is my decision though.

There are a number of practical reasons why it didn’t work for us:

1. finances- my husband wasn’t double my fte equivalent salary. A drop in that income would have been too big. He would have got statutory minimum while I would have had an enhanced package.

2. taking a year suited my workplace for cover. They could advertise for a 1 year secondment. 6 months or 9 months would have been a faff for my organisation (but would have been fine) but it would have been deeply problematic for my husband and he just could not have disappeared for 3 months and expect his job to be ok.

We're about to do SPL for the second time. First time round I took the first 8 months and DH took 4. This time we're doing 6 months each, as that maximises our combined earnings/allowances.

Taking shared parental leave definitely strengthened the relationship between DH and DS and I felt less guilty going back to work relatively early, leaving the baby with his Dad than I would have done leaving him in FT nursery.

I think it's a powerful option for people to have, but you can't underestimate the massive cultural expectations on both mothers and fathers when wondering why take up rates are low.

I must admit, I would have really struggled to share leave. It would have been very bad for my mental health and I'm not sure I could have coped. It would have been like walking out the house without an arm or something.
Also, I really doubt DH would have coped for more than a week. He's been great with all the babies but he's was never as attuned and would have got too frustrated. That's not to criticise him or make excuses, it's really how it is in our case.
So no, being forced to share parental leave would not have worked for us.

Doesn't surprise me.
Most men, hand on heart, would rather be at work.

I have a 4 month old baby and can’t share my leave as my husband’s self employed. However I wouldn’t want to go back before a year and might take longer off. We have an arrangement which suits us. He obviously gets no paid leave at all of any sort but we have savings and he took couple of weeks off and took on less work for a bit. We’re both higher rate tax payers although husband earns more than me so we have slightly unequal salaries but both “good” earners. My husband has time with the baby during the day (he works from home mostly so works after she’s in bed to allow him to take time during the day for a walk or read and sing) and in the evenings (we do bath together) and all day if he wants at weekends. We pay for a cleaner and take turns cooking. I’m exclusively breastfeeding so I need to be about. it’s good SPL is there for people who want to take it up but I don’t necessarily think it’s sad that it’s low. The important thing is choice for people, and importantly women, to do what’s best for them. It’s not empowering for someone to pack me back to work before I want to. As I’m breastfeeding, if I went back before a year (ie before she can take cows milk) then I’d be expressing which I hate. I have a decent professional job and will be working til I’m 109 the way retirement ages seem to be going so a year or even a couple of years is nothing really.

I agree better paid paternity leave (to be taken at any point before school age say) is a better solution than taking away maternity leave.

By taking away maternity I mean SPL (as increasing the dad’s leave is as a result of decreasing the mother’s)

Important point to note; the often referred to 2% is 2% of all men, as they have no way of establishing which men are entitled to take it as obviously no record of who is fathering children etc:) so the actual proportion of those actually eligible is higher.

The key to me seems to be employers offering full pay to men. My husbands does though they have this ridiculous policy of offering it only immediately after the baby is born. I would not have wanted him under my feet for the first three months! We wanted him to take it when I went back so we had a year of full pay between us. We queried it and got it paid later but the policy remains; their point is to pay it as they pay the women which would obviously be immediately after birth.

I'd love to do parental leave and share. It'd be our second time round, I had maternity last time and no shared leave. However, being part time we just couldn't afford it. This could be the case for many other couples as well?

My husband and I did 4.5 months each. He enjoyed it and got full pay so it was a no brainer.

Here's one thing that does give me The Rage though. The most common question that DH gets when he says he's taking 6 months parental leave is "won't you get bored?"

I have never ever EVER been asked "won't you get bored?" I've been asked if I'm planning going back to work, or asked if I'm planning going back part time and I've been told to treasure that baby time because its over so soon. No one has ever asked if sitting at home with an X week old baby whose favourite response to any stimulus is to bring their last feed back all over you occasionally gets a little tedious, or asked me if I'd prefer to be dealing with rational adults for a change.

Sod 2 degrees and a professional qualification, being a milk bar should be all I need for a year

Just anecdata, but I can see why some women are chary about shared leave. A friend of mine arranged with her husband to share leave. She went back at 4 months to a hugely busy office and lots of responsibility, which she found really hard and which obviously had impacts on her breastfeeding.

After a week her husband had started parking the baby with his mother and toddling into work anyway (!), and after a few weeks they put the baby in nursery. He sells is as a mutual decision and/or the fact he was 'just not naturally suited' to being a SAHD. It makes me furious whenever I think of her dragging herself back to work before she was ready only to have him do that.

(To clarify: obviously, not that there's anything wrong with nursery - but I know that for them it was a big financial stretch and that she really hated going back to work so early.)

Men dont need 3-6 months off work to bond with their children. They have been doing perfectly fine for centuries

And women in the US do just fine with only 12 weeks maternity leave... doesn’t mean it’s best for the child or the parents does it?

No one has ever asked if sitting at home with an X week old baby whose favourite response to any stimulus is to bring their last feed back all over you occasionally gets a little tedious, or asked me if I'd prefer to be dealing with rational adults for a change.

Love it! I'm sharing my leave 50/50 with my husband. We are doing 3.5-4 months each. We want to keep things as equal as possible, I'd like to get the balance back into my life as I'm not sure how easy I'm going to find being off work with a baby, and he'd like to take the time with his son. We have had a few raised eyebrows and the perception of him is very different to the perception of me.

I have no idea how I'm going to find it until I'm doing it, but having a baby was a joint decision and is a joint endeavour, and it's really important to me and my DH that we do it equally.

We shared. 9 months & 3 months.

I’m really surprised at the differences in Maternity/parental pay. I only got statutory anyway, as did DH, so it didn’t impact on us who was off work. I would have assumed that was the same for most people before reading this.

The highlight for me was DH saying “wow, it’s just all non stop, isn’t it?”. This was our second child. I don’t think he had really “got” it before (despite being a fantastic, hands on Dad who had always done his fair share). But being on your own with a baby, day in day out, is just something you have to experience.

My DC are adults so I took my leave at the end of 1990’s and was back full time at 8 weeks, it wasn’t unusual and my DC and I bonded well and there has been no long term I’ll effects. My body and hormone were fine.

They were just as bonded with their DF who took 2 weeks both times.

If we were starting now, I may take a little longer as is the norm now and if DH had a reasonably SPL policy I’d happily share.

I do appreciate, however, that SPL was designed for people like us. I'm the higher earner and my DH gets longer on full pay than I would - not everyone will be in the same position.

I think it's v important that men learn how to do the childcare stuff when the kids are young. How many threads do we have on MN where the man leaves all the childcare up to the woman and only 'helps' occasionally? Until you're put in the position of being the one responsible for it, you don't realise how much work it is.

Plus, having men sharing the demands of childcare is so important for improving equality in the work place.

I also agree with a PP that the figures are misleading. It was established last year (when I think they claimed a 1% take up), that the figure was derived by taking the number of men in the company claiming SPL, and dividing by all men in the company! (Half way down here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39899901) Of course the majority won't have taken it up because they haven't had a baby in the last year! The majority of women won't have taken up SML either...

It needs to be paid leave. I’m sure if men received 90% if their pay for 6 weeks they would jump at the chance to take time off to be with their child - or play X box (that’s aimed at my dp not men in general )