To think it's sad that take-up of Shared Parental Leave is just 2 per cent?

[AHedgehogCanNeverBeBuggered]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43026312

DH and I are sharing parental leave between us, 9 months for me and 3 months for him. Whenever he tells anyone the response has been universally positive, generally praising him for doing this. When I've told other women they've often reacted with shock, saying they'd never give up some of 'their' leave to their DH/DP. We know another couple who have had huge rows over this - they'd initially planned to share leave 9/3 like us but at 6 months the DW backed out and said she was keeping it all to herself.

I think if women are ever going to achieve equality in the workplace then more men should be encouraged to take up this scheme, but what if women don't want them to? I feel very strongly that a man should be entitled to time off to bond with his child, but our friends' situation has made me wonder whether it's right to allow the mother to make the decision unilaterally (although as she has to carry the child and give birth it kind of makes sense to have first dibs, although fathers do seem to be pushed out here).

Thoughts? Should we be encouraging more men to take this up or something different?

Families are all different and it should be about both parents having an equal say in how the leave and family life will work.

Sure - and for that reason I don't think it's reasonable or realistic to expect 100% take up of shared leave. If it were at 50% we could maybe agree that that's just the natural variation of individual families choosing their own best option. But 2% points to a societal issue/problem, doesn't it?

Interesting, as I have always assumed that it's motherhood that creates the gender pay gap, but there are lots of women here who were apparently well behind before motherhood became a feature.

Do you not have an HR rep (if not department), smurf? I think you've misunderstood. You go on maternity for the first bit - the 18 weeks you're planning or whatever. Then you bring your maternity leave to an end, and that's what triggers shared parental leave. So you should still get yours, and then he takes some of 'your' statutory. What I think you probably couldn't do is take 12 weeks, then go back, and then later take the final 6 weeks of enhanced (you can take shared parental leaves in blocks) - once you've switched to shared parental you stick on it. But there's no reason you couldn't do that after your enhanced period was up.

My husband and I were going to split our leave with our first child but decided against it after costing it. When I came to it in the end I don't think he would've been able to, as I don't believe he bonded as well with the baby as we thought. He wasn't as hands in as I thought he would be and looking back I wouldn't have wanted to leave her with him when I returned to work. I took the full year and returned to work part time.

During this pregnancy he's changed jobs and unfortunately is not even entitled to paternity leave so is taking annual leave.

Plan men tend to be older when their children are born, so presumably slightly further ahead in careers.

Because unlike women who have to accept the crumbs offered in terms of maternity pay, a man wouldn't dream of accepting 140 a week to stay at home and look after a child.
Let's not blame the greedy mummies who are refusing to 'share' their legal right to time off. FFS.

Yes, plan - to read this thread you'd think the gender pay gap was 90%, not 9%! It really isn't a given that the man in a relationship always earns significantly more.

Not sure Lisa.. I can try ringing the board and asking.. They had sent me the policy which states "9. If the teacher is eligible to receive it, Shared Parental Pay (ShPP) may be paid for some, or all, of the SPL period. ShPP will be paid in accordance with the statutory minimum." Which is what made me think we would only get the statutory if we did it...

I’m the main earner in our marriage. I earn twice the amount of my husband. I’ve also got the more opportunities in my career.

I had 12 months maternity with DS1 and I’m on maternity leave with DS2 currently. I was promoted while pregnant and will be going back to a supervisory position. I’m taking the full 12 months and there is no way I’m sharing it with DH. I went through 9 months of hell during pregnancy and I see this as my reward (as well as baby, obviously!). Plus I have SPD and am using my maternity leave to do yoga and post natal exercise classes.

DH is fully accepting of this, and I have saved hard before falling pregnant to afford my 12 months off. We have agreed though that if either of us had to drop hours etc at work in the future to facilitate childcare, it would be him as I will then be concentrating on career.

I don't think that's the case at all Madonnasmum, The mothers are just as likely to not want to lose their husband's salary, which is a perfectly valid concern when you've just started a family.

@LisaSimpsonsbff I am always surprised by how few women out-earn their partners.

It’s not illegal to pay contractual maternity pay but only statutory shared parental pay - or at least it's not been conclusively found to be. There have been a number of challenges - an early one where the employer caved, and a couple that went to employment tribunal. I know one was found not to be discriminatory as the man got the same pay as a woman on SPL would ... I don’t believe that argument will stand up in the long run.

I dont think it will take it off. Mothers need the time off and a lot of fathers dont really want to take the time off. Its fine to have the option for the odd one or two that want it but men aren't women and we cant force them to be.

This thread feels a bit woman-blaming to me, tbh. Selfish wimmin wanting to maximise their mat leave so the poor menz can't bond with the baby and the properly hard working women are suffering financially.

Madonnasmum there are lots of men on this thread who have accepted £140 to stay home and look after their child though. My dh did it for free for 6 of the 12 weeks he took off and used his inheritance to pay the bills.

What are women being blamed for Ouch? I think often the parenting arrangements that appear to disadvantage women are that way because that's how the women wanted it, but I don't think that's blaming them for anything.

YABU. The leave is too important to the woman's recovery to split it, imo.
Leave for partners should be a separate thing.

I don’t think because a man takes 3 months off with a baby under 1 he’s a more involved or bonded parent than one who doesn’t! Looking after a baby is more about the basics, feed here, nap here, cuddle here, wave toys here. Just because they do that and then go back to work again are they better than a man who spends his weekends taking his toddlers to the park, or having a hobby he shares with a 7 year old, or just perhaps as you are living in a house with your own child you’re helping with bedtimes, giving cuddles when ill etc. To me my maternity leave was what I wanted, a year off with my DC, recovering from birth, learning how to be a mum, being able to shut everything out to an extent and focus on DS. Perfectly fine to do that in 6 months too, but no woman should feel she has to share it to be ‘fair’ or because it’s law. I support the fact it is an option and a choice, but if very few people are taking it up then it suggests the demand is low. It’s not baffling to me why it is, and maybe give it few years and it will be more normal. My DH will have 8 weeks paternity when my next DC is born and that’s a damn sight more useful to me, having the extra help while I’m just post birth and we can share looking after DS and nights etc. Maybe more people taking time off together would be better received!

We did it I had seven months at home, then DH had two months. Financially it worked out as we earned the same, so full-time pay for me + SMP for DH was the same income as when I was on SMP and he was at work. I was able to go back full-time but use accrued leave have one day off each week, then when DH went to work, I dropped to four days a week. It was so much easier going back to work and not having to settle DD at nursery at the same time.

While I was on maternity leave, I didn't meet anyone else who was planning to share leave. The reasons were usually 'We couldn't afford it because DH earns more' and 'I wouldn't want to share this time with my baby'. Left me wondering why I wasn't distraught at the thought of leaving baby DD at home with her dad (and occasionally, why don't I have a rich husband ).

Two years later and the mums I met are all pretty much the default parent. One was amazed to find out that DH takes DD to her swimming lessons - her husband would never do something like that, apparently.

I agree with the previous points about women needing time to recover from childbirth, but the fact that take-up is so low suggested that culturally there is a long way to go before taking leave becomes normal for dads.

I don't think anyone is blaming women. My wife earns slightly more than me, it would make sense to split it. Financially the difference is negligible.

However, she is clear she doesn't want to. I cant get pregnant and have a baby, and feel if she needs 12 months then it's her call.

They had sent me the policy which states "9. If the teacher is eligible to receive it, Shared Parental Pay (ShPP) may be paid for some, or all, of the SPL period. ShPP will be paid in accordance with the statutory minimum." Which is what made me think we would only get the statutory if we did it...

So, my understanding (based on my own employers' HR) is that I'm not on SPL for the first block, because I'm on maternity. SPL kicks in when I end my maternity leave, not before. I'm pretty certain this is also true for you - so choosing to switch to SPL when you go back isn't going to affect your maternity prior to that. This website gives a helpfully clear summary of SPL and ShPP: www.maternityaction.org.uk/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/shared-parental-leave-and-pay/

Give it a generation and way more dads will take time to be at home with their dc's.

FluffyWuffy100

If my husband suggested I go back to work early so he could have some time off with the baby I honestly don’t think I would be able to agree to it.

Even if having two super involved and bonded parents is much better for your baby long term? You couldn't have gone back 2 months earlier to help that bond establish (and remove yourself from being in the default childcare role)

The father being fully involved is obviously better long term for the child but I don’t think that has to be established when the baby is so young. There are years and years and years of childhood for the father to be just as involved as the mother but for me, I feel like whilst DS is so young I want to be the default parent and I want to be with him and not at work.

I had a crappy pregnancy and since his birth there’s been lots of issues that have made parenting a struggle at times and I feel like I’ve earned my time with him, I didn’t go through all the really hard slog to then hand him over to DH when he hits an easy age whilst I have to go back to work. I think that as we go all through the crappy stuff of pregnancy, labour, breast feeding and all the other hard parts of being a new mom then we deserve the full year off ourselves.

Me and my H shared - 20 weeks each. It was great. I was happier returning to work He enjoyed time with the kids. He also appreciated what a full time job being SAHP is and things have been very equally split since we both went back to work. I'm the higher earner so it also made financial sense for him to be off some of the time.

We are the only people we know who did irt though. Mostly it is the mums who just don't want to share the leave ... i feel like telling them they'll end up as default parent with all the mental load but i don't. I just smile and say "that's nice".

The two sex discrimination challenges (discriminates against men to pay enhanced maternity pay but not enhanced shared parental pay) are actually before the EMployment Appeal Tribunal at the moment (Ali v capita and one other I can't remember), so we should get a binding ruling on this within a couple of months. It will be interesting to see whether employers opt to equalise up or down if there is a finding of sex discrimination.