To not understand 'bottle propping'?

[stellenbosch]

Been in the media a lot lately. I don't get it. Why would you do this? It takes about five minutes to give your baby a bottle and it's such a nurturing bonding experience... not to mention the danger, wind, etc!

I'm almost impressed that doing this has never entered some people's heads.
One of my children took well over an hour to feed. Sometimes I would prop her bottle when I could no longer physically hold up my arm. I could then rest my arm and rub her cheek instead.
But, you know, she didn't have broken legs, had her head wedged in a car seat or been left with a drug user, so that might have helped.

The information given in the linked story meant there were far more issues that poor little one had going on, than a bottle being propped to feed him

I had a friend once who propped her baby in the sofa with a cushion!! Wtaf?

What's wrong with doing this?

Lola. LOTS of people have done it. It used to be quite common to see, but less so now. I don’t think it’s ideal, but I think there’s a big difference between doing it while you’re watching them and doing it while you sleep.

I don’t actually blame the young godmother for doing it, she clearly didn’t know any better and in a naive way couldn’t see any danger in it.

'It's such a nurturing experience'
Urgh. Judgement much?
Actually giving a baby a bottle (or breast, tho not the case here) can be a complete arseache when you have loads of other things to do. Cooking the kids tea was my worst time and I have myself propped a bottle to a baby in a carseat in the house whilst trying to run round getting everything else done. I'd say 6mths up. Otherwise, it's listening to screaming.
So I can understand it.
The way you describe is that mothers should be lovingly looking at baby every time they are hungry which lets face it can be all day when they are very little. So I understand why, but also that it's dangerous. But then so are sleeping positions and I put mine however they would sleep. Parenting isn't textbook and none of us are perfect.

I'm assuming the parents will be monitored if they have future children. It said that the baby was looked after by a lot of people so it wasn't necessarily them that caused the fractures but he child would have been in distress.
It was the bottle propping that was fatal though. And it's right people should be warned as it's a fairly common thing to do by parents who are not necessarily abusive but just ill informed.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it when you’re feeding multiples, doing your bloody best and are watching them.

I think it was inhaling milk into his lungs that was fatal, actually.

There are several ways a baby could do that. One, for example, would be if his mother or father fell asleep while feeding.

It is absolutely tragic that this baby died. It is absolutely true that propping a bottle up in a baby's mouth is never going to be the best thing, or anything except a rather desperate fix.

But it does matter to acknowledge that what killed this baby was inhaling milk, and that happened because he wasn't being properly watched. We need better support for new parents, full stop. You make a scare story about one dangerous practice (bottle propping, co sleeping, sleeping on the sofa) and it'll be a nine days' wonder, and then people will point out that some parents do it relatively safely, and we'll go back to forgetting about it. And most parents will do just fine, but the most vulnerable ones won't.

Undoubtedly he inhaled milk due to him having a teat in his mouth that he couldn't remove though.
Obviously other things are dangerous as well such as falling asleep feeding and precautions need to be taken there. I always used to get right out of bed at night and perch uncomfortably on the edge so I was a bit cold and less likely to drop off.

Alex's mother Chloe, 18, earlier told the hearing she had only left her son in Miss Sawyer's care because she understood his godmother's adult daughter, who she said was more responsible, would also be there.

2 non accidental broken legs at 4 months. Left with a regular casual drug user whose adult daughter was more responsible then het?? I think bottle propping was just another part of the story of why little Alex died at such a young age.

If he woke at 8am why did she put him in his car seat? Why didn't she put him back down where he had slept overnight? Unless that was where he slept. And why did she fall asleep so easily when she'd only looked after him for 1 night? And he'd apparently been in the care of so many people (presumably without his mum being present or she'd be able to rule them out of breaking his legs) it wasn't possible to identify who'd given him 2 broken legs.

Multiple births fine but despite having a newborn and a potty training toddler I always found time to feed the baby without resorting to bottle propping.

Poor little thing. RIP.

blue - yes, of course: but the point is, this story could just as easily have publicised a drug-using godmother, a baby with broken legs, and a story of sleeping on the sofa, or co-sleeping unsafely, or whatever.

The point really is that many things are less than ideal, but there is little sense in stigmatising certain behaviours while refusing to support parents in difficulty.

Really good posts by Primark and also LRD

Ik I get your points but I think that it is impossible to compare what you would do to what she did. Some people are brought up around drug users. Their parents are drug users. They may be drug users. Loads of young women have bastard boyfriends who are violent. Life is so different for some people there is no other way of living they would recognise.
And the judgement about how many people the baby had been left with is in my opinion a misogynistic judgement about how mothers should behave, similar to the concept that every bottle feed should be sat gazing lovingly at a baby.
The situation is totally shite. But it would be less shite if certain vulnerable parents were able to disclose difficult aspects of their life, and got support with parenting in a positive way, without being hounded or judged, as they are being here, by other mums.

Thanks, back, really appreciate you saying that.

Poor little boy.

Well if the baby had died of asphyxiation in the car seat no doubt that would have been the headline, or if they had glugged the babysitters methadone the focus would have been on that.
I just remember when I was bottle feeding myself how careful you have to be to keep the teat full so they don't swallow too much air and how they wriggle about uncomfortably and you have to sit them up so they can cough or burp. How does that work when the bottle is propped?
I can understand it being done where mothers have twins or in other difficult circumstances but when you see a single baby being pushed around in a pushchair with a bottle propped or left in their pram in the corner of a toddler group with one it does make me wonder how well they can be cared for if the parent can't even be arsed feeding them.

I think the number of carers was mentioned because it's impossible to know who broke the poor baby's legs!
I'm not sure how anyone an defend the parents though. Don't tell me they weren't aware. A baby with 2 broken legs is going to let you know about it

Another twin mum popping in to say that my mother is a nutter, my dad's dead, my in-laws live in another country, my neighbours were all out at work except my NDN and her terminally ill husband, Homestay could have someone drop round but only for 2 hours in the morning, and the local children's centre feeding support session was only for breastfeeding mums and wouldn't help me (I did ask) so while I got on fine with my preferred method of lying my 2 babies on a soft mat on with side of me in the floor and giving them their bottles that way, I have no problems understanding why someone with twins or small children close in age or more than 2 kids or other caring responsibilities or a disability might find this thing useful. And for the judgy posters
I would urge you to imagine being in one of those categories the next time you go to the supermarket or the GP or a children's centre and try and imagine the mountain some people have to climb every day.

I think there are a lot of people on this thread who really need to take a step back and think.

I'm 30. Because of the circumstances surrounding me shortly after my DD was born, I saw at least half a dozen different health visitors. I also saw the midwives and doctors and read everything I was given and every parenting book I'd bought.

Nothing advised against this.

So at the absolute lowest point in my life, when my DD was small, when my DM showed me how to prop a bottle up, it didn't even occur to me to second guess it. Nothing and nobody had told me not to do it. And I desperately needed the help.

And there's still so little advising us against it that such a tragic story, with so many factors that have lead to the death of this poor little boy, is being used as a cautionary tale against bottle propping.

This little boy was known to social services, had two NAI leg fractures and was passed from drug filled pillar to drug filled post so often that nobody can determine who's responsible for the injuries. The person looking after the child at the time propped the bottle and then stopped supervising him.

Please stop using this little boy's story to talk about bottle propping being 'lazy'. Some who've done it simply didn't realise it shouldn't be done and others had no real alternatives.

blue - yes, that would have been the headline - and that's the point.

When my DD was born, some poor woman had lost her baby because he died as a newborn and it was found she'd been putting him to sleep in his car seat and moving him into the house. So we were warned and warned again about the dangers of ever leaving a baby in a car seat, because it's a dangerous position and they could die.

And then, of course, gradually it came out that this baby had been left in the car seat for hours and hours in the day. But, you still feel paranoid, and you worry about every 20 minute journey.

That is just as sensible as the parents on this thread who worry about their twin babies. We are not talking about a normal situation, but a case of widespread neglect where far more support was needed.

The baby being passed pillar to post and being left with a drug user who had not used drugs during the time she was caring for the baby doesn’t change bottle propping being dangerious

Prioritise your time better, or at least get the other parent (or another loving caregiver) to do it.

Yeah. So the young women I work with have partners, ones they've fled because of violence. They have other loving caregivers, but they smoke meth. Or they are also 14-17. They have to do a load of education, groups and other improving things to prove to SWs that they can parent. All on buses. They are trying to get some qualifications, while dealing with their own addiction, trauma and abuse issues.

Some of them prop bottles while smoking cigarettes. Your judgy pants would leap up and strangle you. But they are trying so hard. Much harder than I ever did.

There's no need to bottle prop when feeding a single baby really though is there? I thought this died out because people realised it was dangerous

I repeat...not everyone has the perfect little breastfeeding lives that all of you judgies seem to have. There are lots of perfectly legitimate reason why you might need to prop up a bottle while feeding a baby. My first never had a bottle (went straight from breast to sippy cups), but my 2nd had all sorts of feeding issues that required a bottle in addition to breast and needed to be in a certain position to feed to not be in pain that involved 3 arms. Bottle propping was certainly something that I tried to do...not because I'm lazy or an awful mother or an unintelligent person or because I endangering my child's life, but because it was the best thing for my baby. It was the same reason why she was put to sleep on her belly despite the general advice that back is best. My dd was in pain if she wasn't on her belly and I very carefully weighed up all the information and medical advice and studies and risk to my child and made an informed decision.

A coroner has warned against giving babies "propped up" bottles of milk after a a four-month-old died when he was left to feed alone in his car seat.

That’s pretty different to using something to support the bottle while you’re sat next to them, isn’t it?

This actually makes me so sad when I see it!
There is a massive difference between using something to hold up the bottle whilst you are cuddling or sitting next to the baby e.g with twins, and just propping the bottle up and leaving your baby to get on with it.

Having a baby does take up every second of your day but surely that's what you signed up for when you decided to have a child.

I find it awful!