To not understand 'bottle propping'?

[stellenbosch]

Been in the media a lot lately. I don't get it. Why would you do this? It takes about five minutes to give your baby a bottle and it's such a nurturing bonding experience... not to mention the danger, wind, etc!

[PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks]

We're poor. We're surrounded by families who are poor. But for some reason, none of us have ever killed one of our children.

[PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks]

Did you read about the leg fractures as well? 😭

[Rumpledfaceskin]

I hate seeing people do this. The babies always look so uncomfortable. Considering all you have to do for a young baby is feed it change it and talk to it a bit it’s pretty lazy parenting.

[GinnyLovesGin]

Poverty?! How incredibly insulting to the parents out there who are raising children in poverty and still managing to care for them adequately.

[GinnyLovesGin]

My sister in law did this. Used to leave my nephew in his cot with a bottle. It hadnt occurred to her that it might be dangerous till she mentioned it to her health visitor who went through her like a dose of salts. She was mortified!

[dustarr73]

No actual cause of death was a mother who didnt give a damn who had her baby.Well she has got her wish.She doesnt have that beautiful baby anymore..

Who doesnt notice2 fractures.That poor baby must have been in so much pain.

[Blackteadrinker77]

Actual cause of death: poverty

How did poverty cause this?

That is an insult to all the fantastic parents who care for, protect, nurture and love their children despite living under the breadline.

[Springiscoming123]

Actual cause of death: poverty

why is there always an excuse

no the parents were neglectful in every way,who treats another human being like that,somebody that can do nothing for themself your own flesh and blood

[BlueMirror]

Bollox was it poverty. There are plenty of people who rely on foodbanks/struggle to make ends meet who still care for their children adequately.
We don’t know why - trauma, ignorance for eg but this child’s family were not able to care for them and either needed massive intervention or for their child to be placed with someone who could look after them. For whatever reason that hasn’t happened with tragic consequences.

[Stickaforkinimdone]

Cause of death: inhalation of milk

Actual cause of death: poverty

[BlueMirror]

I'm not talking about quitting smoking. I said if you can't be bothered to step outside your back door so your baby isn't breathing it in then I've no sympathy for you.
And I feel sorry for he baby not the parents. 2 non accidental fractured legs that went untreated. Even if the parents didn't harm the child they left them in immense pain.

[Redwineistasty]

And I’m talking about nicotine, not fucking heroin!

[Redwineistasty]

Yep, totally smug primark and proud.
No i’m not a perfect mother, I doubt anybody is. But if it comes to my unborn baby’s health (and my dc’s health) then I take it very seriously.

[Blackteadrinker77]

To criticise her from behind a keyboard is disgusting.
Have some fucking compassion

I have no compassion for Chloe, his Mum.

She past her 4 month old baby around drug users and allowed him to live in urine soaked, unkempt squalor.
He had stayed at three different addresses in the week of his death and been alone with so many people that they can't find out who broke his legs.
The baby had already shown signs of being unresponsive earlier in the day and no help was sort for him leaving it impossible to ascertain cause of death.

Bottle propping didn't kill this boy, neglect and abuse did.

www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/lincoln-news/i-would-never-never-never-1073699

www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/police-reveal-dropped-murder-case-1079576

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-42750953

[GrumpyOldBagFace]

There's some disgusting comments on here. Totally lacking in basic empathy and showcasing how fabulous they are.

When I had 8 children under 4 I still managed to tandem breastfeed, hand rear a herd of orphaned cattle, cook from scratch (including digging the root veg) every meal, and complete my PhD in haemorrhoids! But ya know, it's not hard is it!!

I read case reports where my very first instinctive thought is "fucking scum" and then you dig deeper and pity these people. They have no opportunity, no role models, no "normal" as we see it. Their parenting is wrong but not through laziness.

[Primarkismyonlyoption]

Grumpy exactly. She has lost her baby. She must be distraught, there will never be a way out from that.
To criticise her from behind a keyboard is disgusting.
Have some fucking compassion.

[Primarkismyonlyoption]

Red what a fucking smug post. Perhaps you should be grateful for the fact you were able to quit.
You must be a perfect mother.
Blue as well.
Many mums I have met genuinely think the stress they feel trying to stop smoking is worse for the baby than carrying on.
They mustn't have your levels of education.
I worked with a mum whose baby was born addicted to heroin and she was utterly distraught at seeing it detox. Addicted babies scream and scream. I truly believe that 1. life experiences made it near impossible to detox and 2. that no amount of education would show her how awful it would be.
Thinking of your baby before it's born when the craving for drugs comes several times a day is pretty difficult. But hey, you wouldn't do it, Smuggy mc smug. Glad her health team didn't have your views some people hate themselves, probably so that when they receive hate like yours it doesn't hurt so much.
Perhaps bottle propping should be taught to mothers in the same way as sleeping positions.

[GrumpyOldBagFace]

Christ, the judgement!!!

I think I may have been a bit "it's not difficult" judgy until recently when I took a job in a very deprived rural area. I since met parents with the lowest level of understanding, unable to read, from generations of neglectful parenting. Parents who absolutely don't have the resources (emotional, intellectual, financial) to parent like most people on this forum.

It's sad. We have a team of staff that try to work with these people to give them the resources to parent but they're in an environment where their parenting is the norm and they don't understand!

This is tragic and this mother is broken. We (most users on MN) will never understand her thought process or way of life but that is how people live.

[SoftSheen]

Nobody is thick enough to not realise that babies need cuddling. But bonding, intelligence, mental illness, abusive relationships, lack of parenting skills etc etc can impact the mother's ability/desire/whatever to cuddle that baby when it needs it.

All true, and parents in these situations should be given plenty of support to allow them to develop into a 'good enough' parent. However, if they can't or won't, then someone else needs to take over the care of the baby.

[Redwineistasty]

I agre blue I smoked for a decade before ds was born. As soon as I found out I was pregnant I didn’t touch another one. It’s not THAT hard

[Redwineistasty]

Yes but tammy are you doing it unsupervised?

[Redwineistasty]

The baby had no chance whether bottle was propped or not, what with the home life he seems to have.

[BlueMirror]

I've breast and bottle fed. I personally think all safety information should be made available about preparing and feeding formula, alcohol/medication and bfing etc so parents can make an informed choice about risks. I can't see a situation where someone would HAVE to leave a child alone feeding tbh.
And trauma isn't an excuse to fuck up your kids health. Even if you can't give up smoking for eg someone would get zero sympathy from me if they couldn't even be bothered to step outside their back door to spare their child the effect of passive smoke.

[Primarkismyonlyoption]

Wow at the judgements here.
If this were breastfeeding mums criticising bottlefeeding mums because preparing bottles can be dangerous if not washed properly, there would be outrage. Instead bottlefeeding mums are criticising other bottlefeeding mums whom they view as inferior. Yes propping is not good. But the 'oh but babies need cuddles' comments.
Nobody is thick enough to not realise that babies need cuddling. But bonding, intelligence, mental illness, abusive relationships, lack of parenting skills etc etc can impact the mother's ability/desire/whatever to cuddle that baby when it needs it.
A previous poster was correct saying that no health visitor specifically says not to do it. No wonder many mums struggle, when they are having to prove themselves to other mums.

[SoftSheen]

Yeah. So the young women I work with have partners, ones they've fled because of violence. They have other loving caregivers, but they smoke meth. Or they are also 14-17. They have to do a load of education, groups and other improving things to prove to SWs that they can parent. All on buses. They are trying to get some qualifications, while dealing with their own addiction, trauma and abuse issues.

Some of them prop bottles while smoking cigarettes. Your judgy pants would leap up and strangle you. But they are trying so hard. Much harder than I ever did.

I can appreciate that young women in this situation are having a very challenging time and may need lots of extra support, however this does not make 'bottle propping' (or smoking near your baby ) acceptable, as the baby is placed at risk. And wtf has buses got to do with it? I have fed babies on buses many times, no problem at all.