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Original poster

To think we should have the right to die

177 replies

sirlee66 · 09/02/2018 17:29

If my dog was, God forbid, hit by a car or became terminal and there was no way she would get better, She'd get out down. It would be the kindest thing for her

I recently lost my Grandad. He had dementia and developed some other complications. We weren't close but it was still sad to see someone I once knew as so strong become so very frail. It was incredibly hard on my poor Mum.

Towards the end he was very ill. I wouldn't let my dog suffer in the way he did.

I don't know. I have very mixed emotions about it at the minute. I don't know what to think.

Is it unreasonable to want 'dieing with dignity' to be legal in the UK?

OP posts:
ChickenPaws · 09/02/2018 22:46

Those in power imagine that folk will be rushing out to kill off their unwanted elderly relatives, but that would not happen because you’d have to actively opt in rather than being a passive recipient. I’m sure the medical ethics academics could find ways of establishing safeguards to protect those who don’t wish to die.

Biboundeo · 09/02/2018 22:47

Thanks a lot Chiken

elliejjtiny · 09/02/2018 22:59

I agree in principle but I would worry that it could lead to people being encouraged to do it.

ChickenPaws · 09/02/2018 23:04

How are the countries where it’s legalised doing in this respect? From what I understand those fears have not been causing issues.

HeyRoly · 09/02/2018 23:11

I watched my Grandad die horribly of cancer and my Nan has slowly worsening dementia. I would absolutely want to end my life at a time of my choosing rather than suffer either of those ends.

Some of the residents at my Nan's care homes scream and cry for their parents, such is the extent of their confusion and terror. It's appalling that people have to live in that state for years.

Storminateapot · 10/02/2018 00:25

I have incurable cancer and I know that eventually my decline and demise are probably going to be ugly, painful and undignified. I don't want my relatives to feel relief at my death because my suffering is finally over. I'd rather skip the suffering thanks and spare them and me the misery of dying by painful inches when there is no hope.

I've already experienced a period where my cancer caused me excruciating pain for a few weeks and I can tell you that morphine does not stop the pain, it just makes you care a bit less about it. Even asleep I was in pain. I dread that. Being so doped up I'm asleep but still suffering, just waiting for it to end.

I hope the laws are changed before I get to that point because I think it likely I would take the choice to go a bit earlier when it gets to the point of no return rather than suffer and cause suffering to the people I love for no purpose.

lalalalyra · 10/02/2018 00:39

I don't see how we can't have something set up. Even if you say 2 or 3 doctors need to agree in the case where someone no longer has the capacity.

DH's grandmother's death was horrific. She had vascular dementia that came on very suddenly after pneumonia. 4 years later she couldn't remember anyone, often forgetting her own name, she had horrific hallicinations, she was almost blind, her hearing was virtually nil and she was in constant pain from arthritis that she'd had for many years. DH's Mum and her siblings had a conversation with doctors at that point and they decided on no DNR and no antibiotics etc. She went on, deteriorating, for another 2 years. Until the point that she was doubly incontinent, fed through a tube, couldn't see and probably couldn't hear, and spent her days crying or sleeping. In that situation her care home manager, the nurse, the doctor who seen her regularly, her family and maybe an independant doctor or panel or something should have been able to say "Ok, this is cruel..."

MrsDilber · 10/02/2018 01:04

I agree op. If I ever get a terminal/horrible diagnosis, I'm out of here my own way.

mummaCL · 10/02/2018 08:37

My DM slowly left me due to dementia. I watched a strong, proud, competent woman change into a scared confused old lady who didn’t recognise me as anything but the nice woman who came to visit. She died 4 years after the onset of this terrible disease. On her final day she became unconscious in her chair at her care home, an ambulance was called and they tried to resuscitate her. The last thing she would have wanted, she was 83 and not even allowed to die in peace.

TheNavigator · 10/02/2018 08:43

I have had animals all my life and it always astounds me that when they really start going down hill, the vet will start muttering about 'who are you keeping them alive for' and 'doing what it best for them not me' and that keeping them alive too long could become a welfare issue. Apparently a vet can intervene to put an animal to sleep if it is in the animals best interest as they have to put the needs of the suffering animal over the wants of the owner.

Why is it so different for doctors? Why can't they take a compassionate, welfare based approach instead of being forced to keep alive, no matter what the suffering? It is cruel and wrong.

People always spout about granny being forced to do the decent thing by greedy relative, but any nurses I know tell me it is the other way round - granny has usually had enough while it is the relatives pushing them that they 'must be able to do something'.

So there is no evidence against euthanasia, it is a kinder, more humane approach, we trust our medical professionals with our lives so why not our deaths. I do not get the big taboo around doing the obviously decent thing at the end of our lives.

PurpleWithRed · 10/02/2018 08:47

MummaCL, that’s terrible, your DM should most certainly had had a DNACPR in place, the care home should have organised that.

Personally I have an Advance Decision set up already - it won’t get me euthanasia but it will make sure my medical treatment is minimal if I lose capacity. Really easy to do.

compassionindying.org.uk/making-decisions-and-planning-your-care/planning-ahead/advance-decision-living-will/

SleepFreeZone · 10/02/2018 08:51

Totally agree. I have money put aside for Dignitas and I plan on using it when the time is right.

BeyondThePage · 10/02/2018 08:58

I think that yes, people should have the right to die.

BUT - people should not have the right to make someone else kill them.

That is what is being asked for - someone being responsible for killing people as their job.

People who want that job shouldn't have it, people who don't want it should not be made to do it.

charlestonchaplin · 10/02/2018 09:21

TheNavigator
I have had animals all my life and it always astounds me that when they really start going down hill, the vet will start muttering about 'who are you keeping them alive for' and 'doing what it best for them not me' and that keeping them alive too long could become a welfare issue. Apparently a vet can intervene to put an animal to sleep if it is in the animals best interest as they have to put the needs of the suffering animal over the wants of the owner.

Animals aren't like people. They can be bought and sold and farmed and kept selfishly by people for their own pleasure. They don't get a choice in the matter. They do what you want them to do, they die when you decide, regardless of what they want.

Not everyone would want to be dispatched. Maybe they hope for a miraculous change in their situation. Perhaps they fear death. Any assisted death which doesn't result from active choices made when the dying person is competent is completely unethical. Doctors can and do stop active treatment and keep people comfortable as their lives come to a natural end. I think it is a bit of a developed country thing to try to sanitise the process.

TheNavigator · 10/02/2018 10:21

But that ignores the vast strides in medical advances & nursing care that keeps people alive long after what mat have been their 'natural end' as you call it. Is it a 'natural end' to be hooked up to a machine that hydrates you, nourishes you and gives you antibiotics so your body can't die? There is nothing 'natural' about that.

charlestonchaplin · 10/02/2018 10:50

I agree, but most people on this thread are pushing for more than that. More like an injection of medication to stop the heart quickly.

UpstartCrow · 10/02/2018 10:53

No one is saying everyone should be euthanased. We are asking for that right for ourselves.

Whats so terrible about assisted dying? Why should people be forced to die naturally from CJD or Huntingdons?

Girlsworld92 · 10/02/2018 10:57

My gran was in her 90s and ended up in hospital after a fall. In my heart I knew it was the beginning of the end. It took 3 months before she finally passed. I'll admit it was only the last month or so that she gave up but watching somebody basically go on hunger strike because they want to die is not nice. She didn't deserve that x

ClaryFray · 10/02/2018 10:58

My grandfather had a terminal cancer diagnosis and we watched the strongest man I've ever known waste away. He often said when he got poorly he'd take his car out and drive it into a wall somewhere.

YANBU we all deserve the right to die with dignity when we choose.

SleepFreeZone · 10/02/2018 10:59

There was an interesting debate on the radio where a doctor said that people used to die of infections and now they die ofconditions. So whilst I’m grateful on the one hand I think we should be allowed to decide ourselves if we have a health condition that has robbed us of any quality of life.

BeyondThePage · 10/02/2018 11:07

YANBU we all deserve the right to die with dignity when we choose

but we do not have the right to make somebody else kill us.

(which is what it comes down to)

SleepFreeZone · 10/02/2018 11:10

Beyond I’m sure most of us would be very happy to administer our own drugs, we just need the right ones.

charlestonchaplin · 10/02/2018 11:31

I don't think it's hard to kill yourself if you want to, including sourcing medications. I certainly don't want preservers and enhancers of life to become death merchants.

Limer · 10/02/2018 11:42

I think as a society we need to realise that life isn't always better than death. Individuals should be allowed to specify at which point along a "quality of life" scale they'd like to receive the painless but lethal injection. And doctors should be released from the Hippocratic oath mindset of life at all costs, do no harm, etc.

BeyondThePage · 10/02/2018 11:44

Beyond I’m sure most of us would be very happy to administer our own drugs, we just need the right ones

but that really is not where this ends.

How about "the rights" of people too disabled to do it themselves?

How about "the rights" of those who have suddenly taken a turn for the worst and have left instruction but can no longer self-administer?

When we have a right to die, we have to include those who are less able. Which means making or paying somebody else (to) kill people.

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