To think we should have the right to die

[sirlee66]

If my dog was, God forbid, hit by a car or became terminal and there was no way she would get better, She'd get out down. It would be the kindest thing for her

I recently lost my Grandad. He had dementia and developed some other complications. We weren't close but it was still sad to see someone I once knew as so strong become so very frail. It was incredibly hard on my poor Mum.

Towards the end he was very ill. I wouldn't let my dog suffer in the way he did.

I don't know. I have very mixed emotions about it at the minute. I don't know what to think.

Is it unreasonable to want 'dieing with dignity' to be legal in the UK?

sunnyskies i totally agree with that. I think if someone is just diagnosed with something like dementia they should have the right to choose death. But i dont agree with euthenising people too far gone to make a decision themselves. My family already have an agreement should anyone be in an accident on life support the machine is to be switched off.

I have spoken to teenagers about euthanasia and they nearly all say they’d rather die than be a wheelchair user, or be very old (which is about 70 to them). I suspect they’d change their mind in both cases.

We should definitely be allowed the right to die.

I watched one grandparent suffer awfully over several years from Alzheimer’s and several strokes, which rapidly resulted in further mental and physical deterioration. For over the last year of her life she was just kept living, hanging on, via a stomach food tube and a drip, and by nurses and family dabbing her dehydrated mouth with a wet sponge. She couldn’t communicate verbally, and we don’t think she really knew who any of us were. It was devastating. That is not living.

I lost another grandparent due to a combination of hospital negligence, a chest infection and breathing complications. Again, this was utterly devastating, and his death was somewhat premature thanks to the negligence, but he had been such a proud, upstanding fighter of a man throughout his life, and I know that if he had been able to choose, he’d have ended it upon admission to the hospital. It was heartbreaking overhearing him asking my Nan and the nurses in hospital to help him to die due to the agony he was in in his last few days. Of course they all refused, but to see a person so desperate is deeply hurtful.

I personally, absolutely refuse to agree with animals being ‘put to sleep’ in this country, whilst everything humanly possible is being done to keep humans alive. I cannot believe the audacity of some Vets who say almost willy-nilly, ‘they need to be put to sleep.’ No they don’t. What they need is to be with their loved ones, dosed up on pain relief and any other medical assistance to aid their comfort - you know like how the healthcare system treat people despite their wishes.

When humans are given the choice to end their lives, that would be the day that I would consider pet euthanasia, but until then - no chance.

specialsubject
Be aware that pain relief does not always work. Those yelling for better palliative care ignore that.

I can't say pain relief always works however I was taught that no-one needs to die in pain and you increase the dosage of medication until pain relief is achieved, which may result in the death of the patient (doctrine of double effect).

Charleston - you have a very strange perception of dignity.

I wonder if those saying the are straight off to Switzerland at first sign would actually do it.

When you have stared death in the face. You know.

This is such a difficult issue. I have watched a number of family members die from cancer. There was nothing peaceful or dignified about it and it angered me that we had to watch them struggle as they starved and dehydrated over their last few days. I was so angry that the doctor wouldn't give them something to hasten the end.

But there are massive issues. This is not a case of "the CofE say no and that's that." It's not even close.

I've made a living will to state that if I am ever incapable of both caring for myself and speaking for myself, I do not want any interventions, whether medical or surgical, to keep me going when Nature might be trying to let me go. Palliative care only, thank you.

My mother died at 97, having had dementia for maybe 15 years. She was in a most pitiful state for her last few years - unable to hold any sort of conversation, doubly incontinent, didn't recognise any of her family, no clue about anything. Her former self would have been so horrified at what she had become.

Luckily, since the situation never arose, we never had to argue with anyone wanting to 'strive to keep alive', but over the years I've known of so many cases of people in similar states being in and out of hospital, on drips, stuffed with medication, even being badgered and pestered to eat and drink when they no longer want to, to keep them going a bit longer - for what??
Personally I think it verging on cruelty to intervene in such cases, to keep people alive just for the sake of it. But there does often seem to be a mindset that nobody can be allowed to die if it can possibly be prevented, no matter how pitiful the state they're in.

I think the person who said Quality of life was more important than Dignity got it absolutely spot on.

Once the Quality of life has gone it becomes a miserable existence. The last few years of somebody with dementia who's no idea who people are, even the family they once adored. They are too weak to stand, can't even follow a tv programme, can't eat, bed ridden, is that a life worth having??? Without medical care that person would probably have already died why are we forcing them to endure life??

I'm sorry to hear about your Grandad OP. I've had similar with my father and grandparents.

I recently read a thoughtful, inspiring book called Being Mortal that covered this and various other aspects of coming toward the end of a life.

DH read it too and we discussed our wishes and those of our close family. It's something we all need to think and discuss much more.

www.amazon.com/Being-Mortal-Medicine-What-Matters/dp/0805095152

My life, my choice

It isn't just your life Anasnake if you want help.

I agree OP. I currently have a 98 year old relative who has been wanting to die for ages. He's in a nursing home, does see his family often, but has no real quality of life, and basically just wants to go. He's written instructions to say that he wants no medical interventions apart from stabilisation should he become ill. He's currently asleep most of the time with a chest infection, and to be honest we're all hoping he doesn't wake up, as that's what he wants.

Completely disagree Charles

I have an advance directive to refuse treatment in the event of severe accident, illness or dementia.

I’m a nurse and the reality of living in the way some people are forced to live is akin to torture. Thanks to Shipman, doctors now no longer prescribe decent doses of analgesia and I routinely see people in terrible pain, but with no real drugs to relieve it. I also see people forced to remain alive by well meaning but unempathetic relatives and health care professionals who are too frightened or ignorant to know when to call it a day and withdraw active treatment and provide comfort care only.

Antibiotics save lives, but they are also inappropriately prescribed and are causing prolonged misery to countless people.

Make an advance directive. Google for templates and give it to your GP to include on your records.

I think the movie million dollar baby covers this issue really well.

Taking ones own life is no longer against the law. So people can opt out.

Where I have a problem is people excepting others to end their lives. The medical professionals who I spent a lot of time with during my first husband's illness and death wanted to preserve life, not end it.
Plus, many people with life limiting illnesses often feel like burdens on their family or medical staff; I fear societal pressure on them to 'choose' to have their lives ended prematurely.

It's not an easy subject of course. for all those who are amidst seeing loved ones towards the end.

Nobody expects anyone to ‘end their life’ but preserving life at all costs is causing pain and misery to people who may not wish to live like that.

There is no decent palliative care in this country. Pockets of it maybe, but all I see is pain and distress. I’ll be glad when I retire so that I no longer have to be part of it. I trained in order to relieve pain and suffering, not force it on people. There are far worse things than death.

Well I'm involved with the hospice movement, so have seen, and experienced (as a loved one of a patient) excellent palliative care.

I've also sat through meetings - with my late DH, and various friends since - where a consultant has gently said "we could try xyz, but you might want to think about if we're at the stage where we think about quality of life rather than quantity." And they're not talking about euthanasia of course, but about ending the plethora of painful treatments, and accepting that the end will come sooner. To me, that's what dignity in dying means.

Nobody expects anyone to ‘end their life' hmm

How would they die then? A doctor will surely have to end their life for them - isn't that what this discussion is about?

I don't know what I've said that has made you feel so sceptical (the face). I've walked the path of end of life care with my husband, as I said in that post. He was only in this mid thirties. I can't think of anything worse that could have happened to him than death, TBH, so we'll have to disagree on that, too.

I want to have a discussion with DH about our end of life (thank you "this is us" and this thread...) but what questions should we ask ourselves? What "dilemmas" should we discuss? This like no ventilation, no antibiotics, is here a list somewhere? Sorry to be clueless...

I nursed my first husband through terminal cancer as well. The indignity it involved was worse than death for him. He told me so.

*things like

compassionindying.org.uk/making-decisions-and-planning-your-care/planning-ahead/advance-decision-living-will/advance-decision-uses/

This is a useful site and has templates.

YANBU- I witnessed my DF pass away from a very aggressive form of cancer, he would have been utterly horrifed at how his last week was. At the time (many years ago now) I was furious at the injustice of euthanasia for the terminally ill unortunately however, I realised that it was such an insurmountable task to tackle the current legislation that I just gave up admist my own grief