To think we should have the right to die

[sirlee66]

If my dog was, God forbid, hit by a car or became terminal and there was no way she would get better, She'd get out down. It would be the kindest thing for her

I recently lost my Grandad. He had dementia and developed some other complications. We weren't close but it was still sad to see someone I once knew as so strong become so very frail. It was incredibly hard on my poor Mum.

Towards the end he was very ill. I wouldn't let my dog suffer in the way he did.

I don't know. I have very mixed emotions about it at the minute. I don't know what to think.

Is it unreasonable to want 'dieing with dignity' to be legal in the UK?

I would kill a loved one if they really wanted it, were suffering and were in sound mind when they made the decision. But I'm not sure I'm brave enough to go to prison.

So I would have to watch the suffering. May all those who deny the choice never have to face that.

Who is going to give you the right to die gracefully?

Think of the business lost to all the drug companies and hospitals if they couldn't justify their reason to be, to keep you alive for several months on very expensive drugs.

Who do you think is blocking this?

Yes. My grandad died recently - he wasn’t in his right mind when he went but he was totally ready. They withdrew treatment (which I believe includes feeding) and thankfully it was hours rather than days or weeks before he passed. I want to go when I choose, not crying and begging for death.

I agree OP. I was a dementia nurse and it can be so cruel. I have watched my nan go through it and I know for a fact she wouldn’t want to.

I hope when my time comes I can have the choice of dignitas. Of dignity. Of choice.

yes i would like the right to die, having just watched my mum die. absolutely barbaric keeping people alive because we can. she was in pain and confused, and no prospect of 'recovery'. utterly awful.

i would like to choose when i die and save my children that pain. i'd like a branch of dignitas to open in the uk please, assuming i'd actually pass their strict rules...

I plan to go to dignitas if I'm diagnosed with dementia. Which means my life will end before it needs to as I will need to go while I am still able to plan and travel.

My granny was a shell of a human being for years with dementia. Cruel disease. She was physically strong.

They withdrew treatment in the end. It took days. It was terrible. Absolutely inhumane. My dad and his siblings are still affected by the guilt.

The right to die? We will all die eventually, whether we want to or not.

The right to die at the time and in the manner of your choosing? Suicide is no longer a crime but when you want to draw other people into your death plans, especially medical professionals, then the law has a say in that.

Death is a natural process. Medicine (the profession) now routinely ameliorates the process. Now, in the UK, people seem to want to cut out the natural process entirely. My problem is that a lot of the treatment seems to be for the benefit of the family who don't want to see their loved one go through the natural process of dying.

I don't know where this idea of lack of dignity comes from. Terminally ill, in a hospital bed, receiving care and pain relief. What makes that undignified? People say it as if it's an absolute, incontrovertible truth. I think the origin of the idea is strongly cultural. Don't be a burden on society, don't be a burden on your family, be self-sufficient leads to the idea that if you're dying anyway and can't look after yourself you'd rather be dead. And if you'd rather be dead you think your loved one would too.

The fact that pets are routinely dispatched adds to the idea that doctor-assisted death is a good idea. The pets have it better than people. If they could talk, how many of those pets would have asked for a fighting chance?

I just hope that if the law changes the medical profession is kept out of it. A new profession of licensed death/end of life practitioners can emerge. It would truly sully the medical profession to get involved in cutting short people's lives to save some of the pain of the natural process of death.

I disagree on dementia because of the consent issue. Having seen my Granddad go through it, there is no way he had capacity to consent to that decision. And despite us as a family knowing his death was the best thing, it wouldn't have been for us to make that decision.

When people with dementia are able to make that decision, they could 5-10 good years left in them with the right medication so it would be worth them continuing. I wonder if those saying the are straight off to Switzerland at first sign would actually do it. Doctors can be wrong, you may be feeling well and enjoying watching your grandchildren grow. I certainly wouldn't want to end it then because I'm likely to be in a bad way a few years down the line.

I find the idea of being able to give someone the power to kill you in the future if certain conditions are met a bit scary, who gets to determine if they are? People should not have the discretion to kill others. The person dying has to decide that at the time.

I don't know how dignitas works but I would definitely want so strict capacity tests. I would want a buffer and it not be for anyone who was not sectioned.

I think the argument for those with terminal cancer or those paralysed from the neck down is a lot stronger. I'm undecided on that. People do have a right to end their life but I'm a bit uneasy at the state or corporations taking part in that.

I agree op
I watched my dad die from cancer.
I watched my mum battle dementia for 10 years it was awful. She used to cry and ask for her mother constantly towards the end.
Nobody deserves to live like that.

I hope by the time I get to that point there is the option of legalised assisted dying.

Seeing my grandmother at the end was one of the hardest things as she had no quality of life and was just waiting to die. Even when terminal though I’d say she did have a reasonable quality of life for a period but in her case, I think there was a clear indication she had given up. In others, it wouldn’t be so clear cut as to when it might be appropriate to decide to die. She had all of her faculties and was as sharp as ever. It was her body that had failed her. I’m not sure if that is better or worse than dementia.

Seeing a different relative in the final stages of dementia was so hard. She was unable to talk, didn’t really have a clue who anyone was and I just hope she was unaware of what was happening as it is very painful to witness someone as a shell of what they once were. In contrast to my grandmother, I don’t think there would have been an ethical point where this lady could have proven she was in sound mind as her deterioration was so quick.

Oh dear , the big pharma dickishness.

No, that is not who is blocking it . qualification for the house of lords is religion, not science or business.

Terminally ill, in a hospital bed, receiving care and pain relief. What makes that undignified?

And how about a 92 year old bed-ridden woman who has zero quality of life. Who recognises nobody including her own children, is terrified of the shadows, can only lie in bed staring at the ceiling, can't speak, can hardly see, has to be spoon fed. But who has a strong heart keeping her going. Is THAT dignified?

Be aware that pain relief does not always work. Those yelling for better palliative care ignore that.

What you are asking for is a pass to murder
No, it's not about the person who helps, it's about the rights of the person who actively and persistently has expressed their wish to end their life but lacks the physical ability to be able to do it themselves.
Assisting someone to carry out their own wishes is not murder.

Any adult with capacity can make an Advance Decision to refuse certain treatments (eg antibiotics, CPR, ventilation) - see NHS Choices for details.

Any adult with capacity can make an Advance Decision to refuse certain treatments (eg antibiotics, CPR, ventilation) - see NHS Choices for details.

No good if dementia is melting your brain but otherwise you're physically robust.

@charlestonchaplin
That's an interesting point about dignity. Promoting the idea that killing yourself is the dignified thing to do is wrong. That decision should be made without social pressure.

It is often said on here about feminism how apparent freewill is influenced by the culture and I think the same is true here. If it became the done thing that people with dementia go off to be killed because it was the dignified way to go, there would be cultural pressure on people to go along with that even without anyone suggesting it explicitly.

I also agree about pets. Pets are put down because we cannot afford to spent as much on veterinary care as we do on healthcare.

Fully agree OP and I’m glad I live in a country that allows it (Belgium). I watched DH die of cancer. He couldn’t take the decision to ask for euthanasia and it was never brought up by his doctors. But having seen what I’ve seen, it gives me some comfort to know that, should I meet the same fate as my DH, the choice of when and how I die will be, at least to this limited extent, in my hands.

blueskypink
And how about a 92 year old bed-ridden woman who has zero quality of life. Who recognises nobody including her own children, is terrified of the shadows, can only lie in bed staring at the ceiling, can't speak, can hardly see, has to be spoon fed. But who has a strong heart keeping her going. Is THAT dignified?

I don't see anything undignified about an ill person receiving care. I really don't. I have cared for many patients with dementia, and other terminally ill patients. I was struck by how relatives were distressed to see the patient who was calm, if perhaps insensible to their environment, and wanted something to be done to alleviate their own pain.

We have just been through my MIL dying of cancer last week. We nursed her at home, with the help of district nurses. The last week was pretty bad, there was no question about giving her as much pain relief as possible. She was on a lot of it also due to where a big tumour was as it was literally breaking her hip.

I will never in my whole life forget the 24hr death rattle sound.

I'm pleased she is at peace now and went peacefully.

I would help any one of my relatives die peacefully and lawfully if it came down to it. If i was ever in a position i would want to end my life at my own choosing with my family around me. Not hanging myself alone in a room days after diagnosis. Its evil and torture to force someone to stay alive when they have zero life quality. I saw some horrendous sights when working with dying people and i wouldnt make anyone live through that.

ickle sorry for your loss

I want to determine when I pass - not the church, not well meaning busybodies who think they can decide what dignity means to me. I am grateful my grandmother passed before dementia took her too far away. Another friend’s aunt succumbed pitifully and brutally to agressive Alzheimers: she had a pitiful existence, was terrified, didn’t even recognize her own sister and wept constantly. And she was cared for in a lovely seniors’ home. I still think her life was shit there.

As someone who has a serious chronic illness, I worry hugely and support the right to die. However, the conversation about older people and quality of life is a slippery slope. I am absolutely against actively ending the lives of people who lack capacity to make that decision.

I think quality of life is far more important than dignity - we have no dignity as babies and there’s precious little dignified about old age or a disability that requires someone else to do intimate care for you, but that’s not to say the person’s life is without value or enjoyment.