Are you a feminist? Just a yes or no.

[RedHareWithBlondeHair]

No need to go further into your reasoning if you don't want to but this has always a been curious issue to me and came up today with one of my colleagues. She is a feminist by how she described her beliefs but doesn't actually adopt the term.

An MN feminist will defend any poster with cries of ltb and contact the police if a man is much as brushes against his partner uninvited, for example.

What does that have to do with feminism?

through

I dont think your windup is going to work

You overegged the pudding

Disappointing

Yes, but for equality.

I don’t buy into this man-hating bullshit a lot of people try selling, sometimes stating “statistics” and yet also mentioning how behaviour towards certain sexes can force people into acting certain ways - thinking this applies only to women, forgetting its men who have had to also live with the pressure of being a “man-man”.
There are a plethora of issues, I believe both sides need some empathy and understanding. Women need holding up but men need to know it’s okay not to be everything they’ve been told they have to be

*just as men should be allowed to rise without question and women be assured they are capable but not expected to do what they want to do

Yes

I'm not on a wind up. Posters keep asking what an "MN feminist" is. When people are saying "Yes I'm a feminist but not an MN one". That's my, admittedly extreme, for e.g., and why I hid the feminist topic years ago. It's way too extreme in the opposite direction. Not good for feminism imo. Maybe it's moved on in a better direction now, I don't know I've hidden it, I hope so.

forgetting its men who have had to also live with the pressure of being a “man-man”.

It's not forgotten. It's one reason men should be feminists too.

But it's not women's responsibility to fight on men's behalf. It's hard enough to fight for ourselves.
Men are welcome to join in any time, as far as I'm concerned. Just as long they don't pretend to know what it's like being a woman.
They can listen and they can work to break male chains themselves.

I don’t buy into this man-hating bullshit a lot of people try selling, sometimes stating “statistics” and yet also mentioning how behaviour towards certain sexes can force people into acting certain ways - thinking this applies only to women, forgetting its men who have had to also live with the pressure of being a “man-man”.

I honestly can’t think of a single feminist I know who doesn’t believe in the concept of toxic masculinity, and how society expects men and women to behave. Part of my (can’t think of a better word, sorry) action as a feminist is to absolutely challenge this. In fact, I’d argue that feminists generally do not use phrases such as ‘man up’ or ‘boys don’t play with X’ because we recognise how harmful that is.

However, I also feel that we can only do so much. I think we have to have men on board if we want ‘equal’ (fair) rights between the sexes - but I don’t think that means I hate men. I think it means that I think they (all men) should take responsibility for how all women are treated.

I was but I'm rethinking it now that I see it being continuously affiliated with transphobia.

How do you mean “transphobia”, Maggie?

I'm not on a wind up.

What else is a wildly exaggerated statement?
There are virtually no social cases, let alone be the MN majority. End of argument.

"behaviour towards certain sexes can force people into acting certain ways - thinking this applies only to women, forgetting its men who have had to also live with the pressure of being a “man-man”."

I don't know a single feminist who would disagree with you. The patriarchy (as a blanket term for how out society is structured) is bad for men too.

You arearguing against a sort of feminism I don't recognise. One that seems to me to be largely a media/MRA construct.

I have neither the time or energy to be constantly explaining "Ooh no! Heaven forfend, I'm not that kind of "IST" I am a ...Fourth Wave, Inter-Sectionalist, Third Dan, Division 2, Gender Apprecitative, Performative; neo-Marxist, moderate Radical, triple Grande, sugar-free, vanilla no fom latte with Soy Milk Feminist.. Everyone else is WRONG and a handmaiden

FrancinePefko I think I love you :-)

I was but I'm rethinking it now that I see it being continuously affiliated with transphobia.

If you mean transphobia when women say 'hang on, that is not a woman' when faced with ladies like this [see picture], then that isn't transphobia. That is not believing in trans-transsubstantiation.

Yes

All the shit like getting the vote, equal pay legislation, non-discrimination legislation, abolition of marital rape, the ability to have degrees conferred, being allowed to enter the medical/legal professions.

But these were concrete objectives, practical goals. No theoretical hair-splitting and nit-picking about the definition of 'misogyny' or 'the patriarchy'.

As others have remarked, there is a resemblance with the current state of the Labour Party. As soon as I see the word 'neoliberalism', I switch off. And, like the extreme Left, the movement has turned into a sort of cult, endlessly factionalising, arguing about terminology and obsessing about differences and divergences.

There are plenty more things wrong in the world than cat-calling builders in Nottingham.

If you say so Lweji . Yep I'll just go with you're right and I'm wrong. Talk about shutting down debate.

Yes.

Quite often it’s said that men need to listen to what women are saying without shouting them down.

Perhaps some feminists need to also listen to what other women are saying without shouting them down.

I am a feminist. I believe in gender equality. I have been shut down and spoken down to by other feminists on various issues. I have been shut down and spoken down to by more men in my life, though.

I personally think that women should spend more energy concentrating on the bigger picture and trying to attack the massive injustices there still are in society (gender pay gap for example to name just one) rather than attacking each other's understanding of the word 'feminism'

I haven't RTFT but I doubt there is one person here that doesn't believe in equal rights and I bet there are very few people who think we have achieved that. So, at the risk of getting flamed, labels or no, don't we generally all have similar aims??

Through to be fair, you’re not really giving much of a debate - you used a statement you admitted yourself was exaggerated (and ridiculous) and now you’re offended because you’ve been called on it?

Yep I'll just go with you're right and I'm wrong. Talk about shutting down debate

Shutting down debate is making up facts to suit your point of view. In that sense you are wrong, you should be called on it, and you're shutting down the actual debate to focus on your misleading and false statement.
You've made it impossible to engage in actual debate with you.

Yes

Yes.

Although I don't half get called upon to defend that statement, um, robustly on here, shall we say.

If it wasn't such a big part of my day to day life it might be enough to make me abandon the label.