Are you a feminist? Just a yes or no.

[RedHareWithBlondeHair]

No need to go further into your reasoning if you don't want to but this has always a been curious issue to me and came up today with one of my colleagues. She is a feminist by how she described her beliefs but doesn't actually adopt the term.

Oh Francine. Basing your rejection of feminism on something Linda Bellos did in the 1980s and a journalist's think piece about all PIV being rape. Funny how nobody ever comes up with any new "ridiculous feminist ideas". It's always the same ones.

Emotional

You are talking with a complete la k of compassion about extremely traumatic scenarios for women. I find that really, really strange.

Pro lifers alwYs seem to be much pro-er life in utero than anywhere else .

Pro lifers alwYs seem to be much pro-er life in utero than anywhere else

Yup. Think I will stick to fighting for the rights of the living- there's more than enough work to be done there to occupy us all for the next 1,000 years or so. As for the suggestion that a rape victim will be more traumatised by having an abortion than being pregnant against her will and having to give birth to her fucking rapist's child- I am literally speechless.

Yes

Yes.

Yes

Yes

Pro lifers alwYs seem to be much pro-er life in utero than anywhere else .

And there, in one sentence sums up the sneering attitude some MN feminists have of anyone with a different opinion.

All weekend there have been various threads asking why people don’t identify as feminists, and when they give their reasons have been treated with contempt. Thankfully NAFALB. Not all feminists are like Bertram.

My reason for saying I do not agree with abortion on demand is simply that the incidences of women needing abortions due to life threatening illness are relatively rare in this day and age. Those are circumstances where I think abortion may be appropriate, and even then I am not sure. Do we have a right to shed innocent blood?
How rare? What about disabilities that would make a pregnant womans life horrendous?
Should she have the baby over her own health?
I think a rape victim may find having an unwanted pregnant more traumatic than an abortion..

Theglobe

Did you read Emotional’s post?

It showed a complete lack compassion to women. It absolutely prioritised the in utero life over the woman. Her post was both chilling and patronising.

I think that was what Betrand was responding to.

I am a sexual assault survivor SmileEachDay . I know how traumatic it is thanks. I am also registered disabled. I could not raise a child. I am not saying it is not traumatic for the woman to carry the child for 9 months. But could that not be helped by the stupid government we have actually providing better mental health support for rape victims????

I have struggled accessing counselling for my experiences ,myself and I was not even pregnant. But for victims who are, I wish the government would make provisions that woudl help them so they do not have to go through the trauma of abortion as well.

Someone close to me survived an abortion. His mother was raped. She tried to abort him, but he lived. It affected his mind terribly and he grew up damaged but I love him and I with all my heart I do not wish he had died.

I did Smile. I’m not sure I found it either chilling or patronising, however that’s your view and I respect that. I’m also not saying I agree with Emotional, however her viewpoint is entirely valid.

What irks me is the constant sneering and dismissing of different points of view.

SmileEachDay Chilling? If you want to know what chilling is read accounts from people who have survived attempts to abort them and grown up disabled.

Or read about how late term abortions are carried out. How babies have their bodies hacked to pieces. Do you think they don't feel pain?

I just think feminism is saying women are more important than unborn children whereas in my culture all human life is regarded as sacred.

Yes.

EmotionalSupportTortoise Abortions are carried out under anesthetic, as you well know.

SmileEachDay Two of my freinds have gone through horrendous trauma after having abortions. Both of them were coerced into it by their abusive boyfriends. One of them was severely depressed for years afterwards. I think ending domestic abuse is more important than the current priorities feminism seems to have eg demanding abortion and marching around dressed like vulvas.

Old time feminism like the Suffrage movement, I can respect.

UpstartCrow In some parts of the world they are, yes. Thankfully.

I was not sneering.

People have a perfect right to choose whether it not they would have an abortion. Personally, I would not apart from in a very narrow set of circumstances. But I do not, and neither does anyone else, have the right to say whether anyone else does. Nobody. But nobody should be forced to have a baby they do not want to have. And to suggest that women should be forced to carry and give birth to a baby conceived in rape is so utterly chilling that it’s hard to imagine a civilized person believing it should happen.

I’m sorry about your experiences Emotional, no one should have to survive sexual assault.

I still find your first post lacking in compassion. That you have experienced an assault yourself doesn’t change the way it reads, to me at least.

I do completely agree that there should be better support for rape victims; that doesn’t equate to them not having abortions should they want them. The “goal” of counselling should be to mend the MH of the woman, not to prevent abortion.

And yes, adoption can be traumatic. But fuck me, so can pregnancy, birth and being responsible for a baby you don’t want and can’t raise. Or a baby that is doomed to a life of pain and distress.

That should be “abortion can be traumatic”

I think ending domestic abuse is more important than the current priorities feminism seems to have eg demanding abortion and marching around dressed like vulvas

Feminisrs dressed like vulvas are doing so in the context of marches against VAWG. They don’t tend to do it whilst doing the weekly shop..

Or read about how late term abortions are carried out. How babies have their bodies hacked to pieces. Do you think they don't feel pain?

We do not permit late term abortion on demand in this jurisdiction. We do allow it where there are severe fetal abnormalities. Babies are not hacked to bits- an injection is given to stop the heart before the procedure is carried out.

I suggest you stop reading pro-lifer stories- many of them are fake. There really will be extremely few, if any, people who are born after a failed attempt at abortion, if that procedure was carried out by doctors rather than a backstreet one. Ardent pro-lifers don't give a shit about babies. As soon as they are born, they aren't interested in whether they are born into poverty or to mothers who did not want to have a child.

The last thing someone who has been assaulted needs is having their bodily integrity compromised yet again by some nutters harping on about spilling innocent blood. The vast majority of abortions are done early in the pregnancy well before the fetus is formed. That is the case even in countries like Canada that allow late term abortion on demand. The small percentage of abortions carried out later are usually where an abnormality has been detected and involves a very harrowing and difficult decision to be made by the woman and does not need people like you wading in calling her a murderer.

They don’t tend to do it whilst doing the weekly shop

Speak for yourself. I am wearing my outfit now.