Are you a feminist? Just a yes or no.

[RedHareWithBlondeHair]

No need to go further into your reasoning if you don't want to but this has always a been curious issue to me and came up today with one of my colleagues. She is a feminist by how she described her beliefs but doesn't actually adopt the term.

Sofancy yes it is putting women before all others with women only shortlists. How can you not see that?

How can any more qualified man compete against a women only shortlist? I wouldn't want a job with a women only shortlist to be honest. If I'm not better than the men competing, I'm not the best candidate. And I work in IT, a male dominated job.

Yes. Definitely. Absolutely.

And no, I definitely do not think all men are cunts and rapists and out to flash their dicks at children. That’s not my feminism. My feminism is equality between the sexes.

Feminism is a belief and you can be an extreme or a moderate believer, just as you can in any belief system. But the fundamental tenet of equality in all areas of life for all human beings regardless of their sex? Yep, that’s just logical.

Yes.

Some of the comments on this thread are depressing.

I think people are also confused between what feminism is and what a small minority of radical feminists do that is reported in the media.

That's a bit like saying, I can't be a Christian because of the things the people in the Westboro Baptist Church preach.

Right. Everyone agrees with some basic principles. Equal pay, equal rights , equal opportunities.

Presume everyone also agrees this should apply not just across genders, but also across ethnic groups and sexual orientations.

If all of the right thinking people who agree with the above could stop bickering about the label and focus on forcing change then it would be great.

Too many polarised and extreme views are debated around feminism and it's a waste of everyone's time.

Why not leave "feminism" as the term for those whose only real focus is women's rights and embrace a more inclusive and broad movement?

Yes

“And no, I definitely do not think all men are cunts and rapists and out to flash their dicks at children. That’s not my feminism”

That’s not anyone’s feminism.

“Why not leave "feminism" as the term for those whose only real focus is women's rights and embrace a more inclusive and broad movement?”

Would you say the same to people who focus their campaigning on anti racism and rights for disabled people. “Stop focusing on black and disabled people and be more inclusive”?

Yes

“And no, I definitely do not think all men are cunts and rapists and out to flash their dicks at children. That’s not my feminism”

That’s not anyone’s feminism.

And yet you’ve only got to read this thread to see that, for many people, this is exactly how they view feminism.

Yes and no.
No. In that we have very gender stereotypical roles in our relationship. DH. makes financial decisions (I could have a say but am not interested) Our children do accuse us of being sexist.
Yes in that I want my DD to go into the world and be paid equally and not be discriminated against on account of her gender.

And I work in IT, a male dominated job.

YoungMystery why do you think IT is a male dominated job?

Maybe I should have bolded the ‘men are cunts and dick flashers’ part of my post. That was a quote from a previous poster who seems to think that is precisely what feminism is.

Bertrand, I'm a realist. There aren't anywhere near as many negative connotations (from what I see) with those movements as there are with the word feminist.

In practical terms, if the label is hindering support then change the label. What matters more, the label or the outcome?

No reasonable person should have any hesitation in being a feminist and yet they do. The label is the problem.

I do see your point *JustARandomBloke’, and I do agree that the term feminist has suffered under a vitriolic smear campaign.

But that isn’t quite what you said. You did indeed say Why not leave "feminism" as the term for those whose only real focus is women's rights and embrace a more inclusive and broad movement?

Which isn’t just a name change suggestion, but a broadening of focus suggestion. Which would mean it was no longer feminism in any meaningful sense.

No, I believe that men and women are equal in many ways, but that the differences between the sexes should be celebrated, not squashed.

We’re derailing the OP’ tread , which is an interesting one. I’ve started another one here

Yes

In South Africa during apartheid blacks often weren’t educated or were educated very poorly. Illiteracy was very common. Blacks also couldn’t do many jobs.

When Mandela came in he made positive discrimination basically forced. Black people were given jobs in, for example, the police. Forget under qualified, you’re taking about people who couldn’t read.

But how else could he get black people in those jobs? Should’ve they have continued to pick the best white candidate forevermore?

Pumperthepumper I don't know why IT is a male dominated role to be honest. It's easy to do really. I didn't even have an IT background before getting this job, I learnt on the job with people who had many years more experience than me. More women are getting into it, but not quickly enough apparently. I haven't found any negative views towards women in it either, and I probably get paid more than some of my male counterparts, which I still don't think is right. But it's the bad way the company manages its workers unfortunately, same in most places.

Yes

PURPLE - Apart from the obvious bodily one, what differences between men and women are you referring to?

Also, do you drive? Have you received an education? Do you have possessions that are yours? Do you vote? Do you earn your own money and expect to keep it? Do you have daughters and do you expect all of this for them? If the answer is yes to any or all of these things, then you do realise it's all been achieved via feminists/feminism?

puglife15
I think people are also confused between what feminism is and what a small minority of radical feminists do that is reported in the media. That's a bit like saying, I can't be a Christian because of the things the people in the Westboro Baptist Church preach

That is precisely why I choose to avoid any and all labels ending in "ist". I do believe in the equality of the sexes. But the minute I say I am a feminIST - I have to start explaining where I sit on a continuum which is always defined by the extremes. It is interesting how the press have started to use the term IslamIST terrorists rather than Islamic terrorists. By that logic we should call the WestBoro Baptist people ChristianISTs.

So I think it is easierto say what I believe in rather than label myself and then constantly have to explain "Oh no, I am not the kind that starts frothing at the mouth at the thought of someone with a penis using a locked cubicle next to me"

Yes and OH

No. In that we have very gender stereotypical roles in our relationship. DH. makes financial decisions (I could have a say but am not interested) Our children do accuse us of being sexist

There's a difference though between not having a say because you're not interested and not having a say because you're a woman. If you think that all women should leave the financial decision to men, that's very different from just saying that in your case, you can't be bothered to get involved.

JustARandomBloke

Right. Everyone agrees with some basic principles. Equal pay, equal rights , equal opportunities. Presume everyone also agrees this should apply not just across genders, but also across ethnic groups and sexual orientations. If all of the right thinking people who agree with the above could stop bickering about the label and focus on forcing change then it would be great.

Hallelujah