Is it possible to have a proper conversation about work and being a mum?

[HandbagKrabby]

I currently mainly sah after redundancy and I’m setting up a business. I have worked outside the home and been a mum. I don’t care about what people’s personal opinions are about other people and what they do - it’s usually no one’s business. I’d imagine most mums have had or will have a combo of working and staying at home over the time they are a parent so it’s a bit of a silly hill to die on imho.

My point is, can we all help each other as mums without resorting to the arguments about who loves their kids most/who is the best role model/ who’s least fucked if the husband walks out etc etc?

I’ve not sah long and it’s only on mn that I found out if child benefit is in my name I can get full NI contributions. It’s only on mn that I found out how I’m protected in law by being married. Loads of good stuff gets hidden in 100s of judgy posts on all sides and it’s so frustrating!

Society places obligations on mothers that it does not on fathers and also discriminates differently against women whether we have children or are perceived as having the capacity to have children. As a group with loads of mums in it we have such a wealth of knowledge and experience that we can use to help women navigate being a mum, staying at home, working part time, full time, financial planning etc etc.

I love hearing how other mums navigate their lives, how they transitioned through various phases of life, especially when I’m feeling a bit directionless.

What do you think? Or am just I lazy, crap role model for my children because I rely on a man to pay the bills whereas previously I was an uncaring career bitch who dumped my dc with strangers in childcare because I couldn’t be bothered to bring them up myself?

handbag this is the best thread I've read in a year of being on MN!

Since there seems to be lots of knowledgable posters on this thread, can I ask a question about pensions as a SAHM.

I missed 3 years Ni whilst I was abroad - is it worth / possible to top it up?

How do private pensions work for SAHM? A PP said they had protected themselves as a SAHM by 'being on the pension'. Does this mean by adding their name to DP's workplace pension or by starting a private pension?

cuckoo proper maternity leave is a massive issue - I’ve had terrible experience of workplace attitude to maternity leave and I’ve also experienced needing maternity leave to recover (no way I could have bounced back into work 2 weeks post c section). When women talk about countries that are more generous and equal there seems to be other trade offs that aren’t so good, it would be interesting to come up with an ideal

any the only positive with the destruction of pay progression in teaching is if you’re experienced they will consider you for a new position alongside nqts as they don’t need to pay you to scale anymore. I’m under no illusion I’d get ups if I went back to teaching (I’m not going back )

moon a couple of years before I graduate to full leech infamy Possibly just a broodmare at the moment!

ami I don’t know. My incomplete years are too long ago to make up so I’ve not pursued it. Maybe it’s worth going somewhere like money saving expert as there’s often good financial advice there. I’ve only sah for a bit so I’ve not sorted a pension yet I’d like to see a financial advisor but I’ve no idea how to find a good one or what I’d be really asking for.

Great thread! I’d love to see more tips or just sort of break downs of how things work for working couples. I’ve taken nearly a year off with both and returned part time as a secondary school teacher each time.

We get by financially but don’t have much spare and I think it won’t be sustainable for much longer so I’ll aiming to pick up more hours next year and be full time the following year. Husband is also part time but works more hours.
In advance of returning to work we had frank discussions about the mental load etc and we now have a shared calendar , shopping list and to do list... shared photo album where we store pics of whatsapp party invitations for kids, Doctor letters or other relevant info. It’s been life changing. I’ve also learned to step back and not meddle. Eg if it’s husband’s shopping week then he does it his way and I don’t comment. If it’s his childcare day He dresses them how he likes and does what he wants and does the best he can.

I must admit that in the past as a SAHM I felt I did everything the best way for the kids and knew everything going on. It’s taken a while to realise you have to then resist managing them when your OH does what you say you want: take responsibility. Also consciously stopped running mental lists for everything and (you might say childishly) responded with “not sure you’ll have to check the list/calendar/cupboard/letter/email” when I was asked something for a few weeks.

Now I’m writing that down I’m embarrassed but it really made us into equal partners at home for first time since having children 😀

Oh and YY to breastfeeding bed sleep deprivation as feminist issue.

We might weaned my first at around a year and a half with my husband going in and cuddling til fell asleep and putting back in cot and took around 3 nights of hardly any crying before she went from hourly wake ups to 2 a night then swiftly to one and none.

Aiming to do same in a few months as some mornings I can barely make any sense at work but my husband is not quite ready (he wants to do it when he has annual leave!)

How many years NI contributions will/do you have without topping up?

I would like to know how both parents work when they don't have a family/ support network. Practically, what happens if you're nanny is ill or your LO is ill and can't attend a group setting?

One of us stays home. We're both in managerial roles and can pretty much decide over our own schedule.

That's one thing you often see, people claiming that well-paid careers are not compatible with being a parent. (No, being a mother, let's be honest, as there is no such thing as fatherhood-penalty.) Because of long hours, stress etc. Yes, it's true that neither of us can clock out at 3.30 or 5 and forget about work. But this also means we don't need to clock in - if I want to work from home or take a day off, I'll simply do it. We parent equally and whoever has more important things to do in the office, will get to go to work.

Only issue really is juggling business trips - if one is away, the other should try to have an easy week allowing homework if needed.

Of course, this is not possible in all careers, but generally I can recommend climbing as high on career ladder as you can, before having DC.

I have not RTFT (sorry, I will!) but to the person early on who said that anyone stressed by being at home wouldn't be able to cope with the world of work AND kids you are wrong - I am SO much less stressed since I went back to work!

Hats off to anyone doing the SAHM thing, I could never do it but I feel guilty about that and have nothing but admiration for those who do.

I think it would be helpful for new mums to know that the first 4 years are the absolute harder to juggle work.

I've not found this, I think it's harder when DC are school age because of all the school holidays/inset days/assemblies/parents' evenings.

poffley I massively struggle with being a sahm. When I worked I dropped dc off at childcare and I felt safe in the knowledge they were with people who loved looking after kids. I love my dc more than anything but I don’t like playing, I refuse to do messy play as I hate cleaning and I feel like instead of being a happy, Topsy & Tim-style, perfect mum I’m a lazy, selfish, crap mum who spends too much time on the internet and not enough time making glittery pasta necklaces. I’m going to see if I can find a messy craft class thing I think so someone else can do it whilst I encourage from the sidelines!

Kath in my head I’m going to score a perfect job later this year and me and dh will seamlessly manage childcare through flexible working and working from home - I see you have done this so I know it’s achievable now!

Helendipity my hat goes off to you for planning to go back to teaching full time! It sounds like you’ve really found a way to share the mental load. It holds so many women back - if I get asked what’s for tea one more time by my dh I’m going to bury him under the contents of yet another Ocado order

I would like to know how both parents work when they don't have a family/ support network. Practically, what happens if you're nanny is ill or your LO is ill and can't attend a group setting

It’s really hard. No two ways about it. No family here, both in professional long hours type jobs that require travel. It’s exhausting. No nanny. We have zero leisure time and go out together on average once a year. We manage, just. But at considerable personal expense to our own health

I see people on fb able to leave kids with parents and go out. One was moaning that she never gets to go out - in reality she’s out on the lash once a week minimum with two sets of grandparents able and willing to help.

In the last year and a half we’ve been out once, for an afternoon cinema matinee.

I would like to know how both parents work when they don't have a family/ support network. Practically, what happens if you're nanny is ill or your LO is ill and can't attend a group setting

It's really, really hard. If our children are slightly ill (i.e. recovering but not contagious), we use a back up care nanny (employee benefit through work). However in reality, I'll drop everything to be with my children if/when they need me. I've found that all my children just want to be with me when they're ill, and nobody else will do. Having said that, they sleep quite a bit too so I try to work from home as much as possible so as not to fall behind.

Whenever someone's ill, it takes me a full week to recover professionally...unless another child gets it or I do!

We try to minimize illnesses but they happen anyway. We are pedantic about hand-washing; after using the bathroom, before eating meals, after coming inside from outdoors. Bathtime most nights before bed, humidifiers and Vick's vapo-rub if they're stuffy, etc.

Even with all that, I reckon we have about 2 days per month on average of child-sickness days, which we try to share. I'm usually the "super ill stage" parent and husband is the "still ill but not as clingy" parent. I make up the time in terms of hours and work, but it still means I'm visibly not there in the office during working hours. Not good for my career, but that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make. Manager is supportive as are most colleagues.

Agree with previous poster about getting a professional/managerial level before having children if possible, although clearly not feasible for everyone, and different careers have different rules. Trying to be more constructive, one thing everyone can probably do is to try to find a supportive manager and working environment.

and YES Helendipity to the mental load issue! Always working on that one, it makes a huge difference. We tend to split things cleanly (with minimal grey areas) e.g. husband buys birthday presents for birthday parties, takes out bins and cleans floors, I clean bathroom and kitchen tops, we all (even kids) load the dishwasher (kids do it correctly, you're welcome future children-in-law!), I plan meals and we assign them, etc. Obviously it doesn't always work out, but it makes things way more even.

Teaching is not a good career from a looking-after-sick-kids point of view as we can't work from home, supply teachers cost the school heaps and we can't take annual leave. This also makes it tricky when our own kids have INSET days etc. Obviously the pay off is that we don't need childcare in the school hols but we rely on grandparents a lot when the dcs are ill which we feel terrible about.