'I don't shake women's hands'

[canary1]

In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

If neither the husband or the wife shake hands with the opposite sex, I don't think I'd be offended. If it's out of respect to their partners then fine. I would probably feel fine kissing female people on the cheek in France, but not male.

If it's because they think I'm dirty and not worthy then I'd be offended.

The thing is, in OP's situation you can't tell what the reasons are, other than "religious belief". It's not explored. For that reason, because it could be taken to mean you're inferior rather than due to their marriage customs, it would be more appropriate to not shake hands with either sex.

I cant cay it would bother me, I was once at the cash and carry and I wanted something from the top shelf, the only person around tall enough at the time was a sikh chap, who ignored me the first few times. I did apologies and explained that their was no one else around to ask, he then did help and I thanked him. I respected his views and was also very grateful that he accepted my apology for asking and my explaination for why I asked him and then decided to help regardless of his views.

I wouldn't be bothered. He doesn't have to shake anybodys hand

Wonder whether he'd shake the hand of a trans man or woman

I wondered that too. Probably depends if the transwoman still has her penis or not.

I don't understand the post above. Why would a Sikh ignore you and refuse to help you get something off a shelf?

He doesn't have to shake anybodys hand

Indeed he doesn't. But he chose to shake men's hands and explicitly said he wouldn't do the same with the OP because of her gender. Which is patent discrimination.

the only person around tall enough at the time was a sikh chap

He probably couldn't hear you. Men and women are equal in Sikhism, they were the first major religion to have that principle.

If so then you might feel more at home in the Islamic State
Because I don't fit your liberal, watered down idea of what a Muslim should be and instead try to follow the example of the Prophet, Ahl al-Bayt and Sahaba? I find that really offensive and ludicrous, I have Shia family in Iraq ffs

I think if a Muslim were in a situation where there was a mixed group of non Muslims and they refused to shake hands with everyone that some people would think it's because they are non Muslim. I think it's even more likely to offend than choosing not to touch either men or women. Obviously I'm only speculating, I have no intention of actually doing it.

ooohbetty that is a windup yes? You were grateful that HE accepted your apology for asking him to do the job that he was being paid to do?

I think my mind just exploded. Why didn't you say ok if you don't want my money I'll go elsewhere and I'll tell everyone I know to do the same.

Crumbs has no-one anything better to do than kick this around all day?

I see the OP is all over the 'controversial' thread he/she started.

More likely a Kipper/Daily Mail inspired thread on a fictional event to try to sow discontent.

Elton I agree with most of your points and of course we can’t force people to handshake, so abstention from handshaking is the only solution.

It does definitely feel like one cultural practice winning over the other though, and in this case the cultural practice of handshaking loses. Why? Because religious feelings on one side are stronger than people’s cultural ‘need’ to handshake. (Setting aside the obvious need to not discriminate based on gender).

If handshaking stops completely I’m sure people won’t mourn for the days of handshaking , but it’s the principle, and what will be next?

(Sorry I can’t do this thread justice as have to deal with DC.)

Stateless - do you think conforming to western cultural norms "waters down" your religion?

What would you say if I took my culture and attitude to Iraq and insisted on refusing to cover up, and on drinking alcohol and eating pork - would you find it acceptable because I am refusing to tone down my cultural beliefs that people should be able to do whatever they like so long as it causes no harm to anyone else? Or would you say I should respect their culture in their homeland?

do you think conforming to western cultural norms "waters down" your religion? It can do yes. Most things are fine, some aren't. I wouldn't care what you did Rebecca

More likely a Kipper/Daily Mail inspired thread on a fictional event to try to sow discontent.

Oh for fucks sake. That's pathetic. The vast majority of people on this thread have shown understanding of the issue and only asked that it should be done in a way which also respects women's right to be treated equally. If that's your idea of the Daily Mail comments section you've obviously never seen it.

That's always the last resort of an SJW losing an argument 'you're all/racists/Daily Mail readers/fascists.' The problem is it's not 2005 anymore, everyone's wise to that tactic and it doesn't close down debate these days.

Really?

If you think it's watering down religion to shake hands, do you really think it's ok to force observant Muslims to sit next to me whilst I eat pork and drink alcohol and witness my exposed legs?

Sounds far fetched. But ok...

Once again, Elton is spot on

I think if a Muslim were in a situation where there was a mixed group of non Muslims and they refused to shake hands with everyone that some people would think it's because they are non Muslim

Sorry, how come you're perfectly capable of explaining that you won't shake men's hands but you can't explain that you don't shake anybody's hand? Why are you suddenly so afraid of offending people by implying it's because they're a non-Muslim when you're fine about telling them outright it's because of their sex? Why do you think discrimination on a religious basis is a nono, but on the basis of sex is fine?

Well, no. The OP is spurious and not convincing as to whetrehr this actually happened, and OP person hasn't been seen for dust.
So yup, looks like a Kipper set up whether you wish to acknowledge it or not.

and saying 'ffs' doesn't strengthen a position.

and no, posters have not 'shown an understanding of the issues' at all. Just a little Britisher one. With a self-identified muslim woman being invited to join Islamic State.

Well done OP Nigel.

What would you say if I took my culture and attitude to Iraq and insisted on refusing to cover up, and on drinking alcohol and eating pork

The issue isnt what you and you do alone. Its about you and other people so this doesnt stand up. You can eat pork but that is not the same as making others eat it. You can get pork easily in Muslim countries. Often it is very clearly labelled to prevent confusion.

Your example would only work if you were saying you wanted them to eat pork. Al that is happening here is that some women are terribly butt hurt that a man is not touching them. Some kind of odd reversal of #MeToo - me too wants a handshake. I suppose there will be a great support for men to foist their hands on Muslim women as well? Why we cant accept people have boundaries they dont want to cross? I thought the real problem was the unwelcome crossing of boundaries.

Why is it being "little britisher" to suggest that people doing business in Britain act in accordance with British cultures/practices, just as British people should in other countries?

I would totally agree if the OP had been objecting to people from other countries doing business or moving here, for example. That would be v different (and vile). But expecting people to comply with normal British practices that don't distinguish between a businessman and a businesswoman? Why are some people so desperate to remove every shred of Britishness?!

normal British practices

"How and When to Shake Hands” from a 1900 issue of The Delineator offers an even more restrictive take on the etiquette of opposite sex handshakes, stating: “When a man is introduced to a woman she does not shake hands with him unless he is decidedly elderly or distinguished. If he is the husband or brother of the woman presenting him, it is natural to receive him cordially by shaking hands; but it is not good form to do so if he is a mere acquaintance.”

Of all the things that help form my identity, how, when and who I shake hands with is very low down - I guess my entire white Scottish upbringing has be designed to "remove every shred of Britishness?!"....

Scottish - well no, not so much. If I stood in the street in skimpy clothing, drinking booze and snogging someone who wasn't my husband in a strict Muslim country, it would absolutely be about what I did. No cries of "but it's my culture!" would help me.

That's why I wouldn't do it. Because it would be disrespectful to the country I was in, and because I don't get to dictate what is appropriate behaviour by reference to what I might believe in or do at home anywhere else.

Amazed at the number of people who still think anyone is trying to demand that somebody shakes their hand. Nobody is suggesting that anybody should be forced into physical contact with anyone else.

There really is no reason why we shouldn't complain about discriminatory behaviour though. If I started a thread about a friend who only shook hands with white people, how many people would be fighting to tell me to respect his beliefs?