To want to move because I hate it here?

[mcgoogleismename]

A bit of backstory:

I am Canadian and moved here after University to be with my then-BF (now-DH). He is British. My family are all in Canada and his are all in the UK. I am extremely close to my family and ideally would live in Canada, but due to family disabilities on DH's side, this isn't really an option. We chose the UK because he was still doing his Masters and PhD at a very good British University. I have been here nearly 4 years now.

DH's PhD funding runs out in September at which point he will have to work while finishing up his thesis. This is where I think we should be making a move to somewhere that I find has a great culture and a booming industry in DH's field. I thought DH was on board, but now he wants to go somewhere an hour from where we currently are.

The thing is, I hate where we live. I don't like the culture or the politics. I feel like I don't fit in. All over England I am hearing awful things said about immigrants and it's hard not to take it to heart. We have a handful of friends who don't live near enough to see often, and I am worried that it is going to be the same situation in the place DH wants. He's got his eye on a posh place because of a particular company. I am not a posh person and don't do cocktails or fancy dinners, and I can just see myself being lonely and uncomfortable. I simply don't want to be in England anymore. I don't feel welcome.

DH says I'm not open to anywhere except the place I have been on about (which is true, in a way). The city (not in England, but within a 45 minute flight) feels like home. And being so far from family, I think that's what I need - somewhere that I know I fit in and can make friends and fit into the culture.

AIBU to want this? Or am I being close-minded in thinking that I will never feel happy in this country? It's a major sticking point in our marriage right now.

As some say the racism and xenophobia aren't directed at Canadians, I would like to add that I am a minority, so feel that some abuse is directed at me.

You say that your DH family are from the North West and you have spent time there but would you rule out Manchester?
Plenty of tech jobs and I would imagine opportunities for you too.
Lots of people from all over the world and large gay community so quite liberal.
Not perfect by any means. Homelessness is an issue but on the whole a great city
You mention an incident in London, I wonder if this is playing a large part in you writing off a whole country.

I would consider Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, etc. I spent a week in Edinburgh and loved it, so it could be a good consideration. Manchester isn't my favourite, but I haven't spent a lot of time there and don't know much about it.

As for writing off the whole country because of the London thing, I don't think I am, but it's possible that it has influenced my views subconsciously. I will reflect on that point.

heron98, I hear you there!

OP I am from Dublin. It is great but I'm not sure if it is just a method of escape for you. There are bound to be plenty of places in UK you could settle in ans be closer to family. We are currently living outside of Dublin. Hustle and bustle of Dublin is great but house prices are high and commutes are long. Hard to have children without support. It is not as idealistic as you think.

I think you sound a bit precious OP. But good luck whatever you decide.

plumsofwrath has made a very sound comment.

However, as a broad generalisation I’d say there are ignorant people everywhere in the world. Your perceptions about people and places and your reactions to them also play a part. There is not just the north /south issue, there is the urban/rural issue as well as the ‘what country in the UK’ issue. There certainly are many different cultural makeups and different issues being dealt with even travelling short geographical distances.

If you are for staying in Britain, Glasgow and Edinburgh give good options ~ but even within that, choose wisely which district to live in. Not sure where Heron lived, but doesn’t sound like the Scotland I know (and have lived in many places across the UK).

It seems to me that Cambridge could be the place , loads of tech jobs, prestigious institutions and easy and regular access to London should you need it without having to live there .

Tapandgo I was going to say Scotland too. Edinburgh is great for the tech and science industry and you can live a little outside of it with a commute of 25 mins and get a house for half the money. You have mountains and hills at one side and city's at the other all within an hour or 2. It's very much like Canada I think.

I urge you to go take a good look at Manchester. There is so much going on.

The northern ballet school is in Manchester and there is a very strong history of jazz dance. People are nice too. If we were to return to U.K. it would be to the left side of Manchester.

There is nothing wrong with the right side of Manchester but my family live in the NW and I would want to cut down on the commute.

I agree with glitter. I think you never wanted to settle and were just waiting it out, and now have a lot of excuses on why you need to live in a certain place, a place it seems you simply visited on holiday.

I've moved a lot, I've lived in mainland Europe, and know for a fact it's what you make it. You get out what you put in. Friendly people exist everywhere, Some Of the stuff you're coming out with like hating England, not knowing the difference in Britain after four years, and feeling like you're not welcome because you're Canadian and that the immigration crap is aimed at you, is just crazy.

Honestly, if I was your husband, I'd probably tell you to sod off back to Canada. You've stayed here but only because you had to and your plan was always to get out of dodge as fast as you could.

The UK is anti foreigners thing is an excuse you're making IMO. If you had at all taken an interest in the Brexit debate, ypu would understand that by and large, the Brexiters' anti immigration argument was rightly or wrongly aimed at immigrants from low income European countries and benefits claiming/undercutting workers in the UK (Im a remainer btw). It isnt aimed at French baristas, German engineers, or Canadian choreographers working in the UK.

With respect, are you an immigrant?

If you aren’t, then you don’t get to tell immigrants whether the anti-immigration rhetoric and sentiment makes them uncomfortable, or whether it creates a hostile environment.

I’m a white, middle-class Anglophone Commonwealth living in the South East and paying higher rate taxes. I am the absolute definition of the fabled ‘good’ immigrant. And still, the attitude shift towards foreigners and immigrants is fucking horrible in the last few years. I won’t consider living anywhere outside of Greater London because of what I’ve seen and experienced in other parts of England (and yes, I know the difference). And sorry to the PP, but that includes Norwich, in spades!

OP, being in a marriage with someone from another country and living in their country can be crazy tough. Huge sympathies. If your DH isn’t willing to make some fairly major compromises for you, given the one you’ve made for him, then he’s a total prick.

I'm surprised by people critiquing the OP for saying England not Britain- culturally, the different parts of the UK are extremely different from each other. I loved living in London, quite liked living in South Yorkshire, and will never again live in the SE apart from London.

You would be surprised how much racism and xenophobia you can pick up even as a white immigrant, and OP says she isn't white. Even if it isn't directed at you, it doesn't change your mind about how welcome you are.

OP, I'm from Dublin originally. I think if you want to stay in the U.K., parts of the north or Scotland are culturally different to the midlands and SE and remind me more of Ireland- I know lots of Irish people living in Edinburgh.

Re Dublin, I'd say it can be a challenge to make friends if you didn't grow up here- a lot of people move away for many years but still have friendship groups from school or university. But there is a big mobile IT workforce, and definitely opportunities to meet people. I find it a nicely sized city- if you could live in one of the urban villages like Rathmines, you'd be basically in the city and could walk or cycle most places. However, It is also having a housing crisis at the moment, which is a struggle in terms of either renting or buying. It's getting like London prices on those fronts. But it sounds like your DH will be a high earner.

Agree with others that you seem to be doing all the compromising. I think it's important for him to state his criteria- he seems to be making all the decisions here. Though to be fair, you are talking about moving to another country. You would need a visa, unless you've acquired British citizenship. You also may not visit his family as much as you might now. There's nothing wrong with just not liking a place, and once you're open to alternatives he really needs to be more flexible.

@JassyRadlett
Please don't layer your own experience over this debate. Personal anecdote is meaningless. The tap and jazz friend I mentioned in my post is from NZ so same profile as you - she loves London, thrives there and is happy there. So personal experience is meaningless.

I never tried to tell anyone how to feel, I was explaining the debate/issue. And for what its worth, the phrasing "you dont get to" is absolutely cringeworthy.

I always advise people to move to Norwich

I' m a big fan of Norwich, too, for all the reasons mentioned. There are lots of places with a similar vibe, but bigger (Brighton, Bristol) or smaller (Lewes, Totnes, Stroud, Frome).

For a small country, the UK is surprisingly varied. I'm sure there must be somewhere you'd feel comfortable and more at home. And one advantage of it being a small country is that you'd struggle to be more than a 3-4 hours from a big city that has some sort of arts scene.

Have you travelled much within the UK since you've been here? I'm 62, have lived here all my life and still keep discovering towns that are friendly, vibrant and have liberal attitudes.

Please don't layer your own experience over this debate. Personal anecdote is meaningless. The tap and jazz friend I mentioned in my post is from NZ so same profile as you - she loves London, thrives there and is happy there. So personal experience is meaningless.

Don’t get defensive when someone points out that your sweeping generalities are in their experience total bollocks.

You were willing to apply those generalities to OP to tell her she was talking nonsense and anti-immigration sentiment, and dismissed her experience. I was pointing out that in my actual, lived experience (not ‘I have friends who are immigrants so I know!’), her experience is plausible.

I agree, London is fab. People other some other places? Not so nice to the immigrants.

I have a lot of Canadian friends, many of whom feel like you! I was also a PhD wife... it is hard. Being an academic’s wife is also hard, so bear that in mind wherever you go.

On the substantive issue, try Edinburgh. I lived there for 10 years (then had to move for academic husband’s job) and honestly it is the most dynamic, cosmopolitan, friendly and liberal place I’ve ever lived. I grew up south of Manchester and I agree with all that it is much much better than Midlands, but Edinburgh still wins.

Dublin is fabulous, but I found it hard to break in to a solid friendship group. It’s also hideously expensive. But of a wildcard, but have you thought about N.Ireland? Derry/Londonderry (NB you will need to understand the distinction if you go there! You can’t go 4 years ignoring it like the England/UK issue ) is still developing, but is doing so in a very inclusive way, and it has a huge cultural offering. Tech jobs might be available as there has been a lot of US investment there.

We’re in Yorkshire currently and whilst there is a fabulous dance culture (Northern Ballet, Northern School of Contemporary Dance) it look me a long time to settle in after Edinburgh; not sure Yorkshire is what you need (although I am now settled and in love with the stunning countryside).

I hope you find something to compromise with. It’s awful not feeling at home in your ‘home’. Good luck.

P.S. Avoid London. As much as it is a cultural hub, it’s a huge melting pot of opinions - some you’ll find tasteful, others not. Also I’ve never been so lonely as when I was in London. Not least because I couldn’t afford to do anything!

Could he get a job in Dublin - they are hard to find and cost of living is high

not remotely hard to find, especially in the tech centre. Cost of living is high but so are wages.

Chucking out ideas

If you like Dublin, maybe come a bit further north and look at Newry, it's just on the border of Northern Ireland / Republic of Ireland. Its inside NI but within 5 miles from Republic.

Jobs in tech sector are quite good if needed to travel 40 mins in a car up dual carriageway and M1 to Belfast or about 70 in the other direction to Dublin also on the M1 (the M1 is the only motorway that is the same continuous motorway in 2 countries)

Currency is sterling as opposed to Dublin and euro,

Useful to know about health care is NHS as opposed to Republics general medical services scheme which is tiered and if you dont qualify for a medical card will cost you 40-50e + for a gp visit,

if you attend a+e without having been sent by GP, OHH or taken in as major trauma you will be charged 100e (it could be up now)

if you dont have a medical card there is also a fee to pay for each day a person spends in hospital occupying a bed,

after all that prescription wise if no card you pay whatever the cost of your medication is in the chemist not a fixed charge. In NI there are no prescription charges.

Its not perfect but something to consider, also a choreographer there are several drama schools around and local college does a highly rated performing arts course where you might get an "in" for dance

Have you researched dance companies and tried to make contacts - may give u strating place where u could work

Sorry but I would not recommend Newry as any kind of alternative to Dublin. I know Newry well and its exactly what OP does not want.

American married to a Brit here. We live in central Edinburgh and it has everything I want here. We’re central so it’s very cosmopolitan and dynamic. I find people very accepting to other cultures here and friendly. I love that you have another dynamic city (Glasgow) within an hour and the Highlands not much further. East coast Scottish weather is not too bad (I’ve lived in London as well), it’s cold but doesn’t rain so much. We have kids and I’m happy to bring them up here.

I was brought up in Northern Ireland, I'm not sure I'd recommend it.

We are now back in Dublin after 10 years in London. It's a great city in many ways. People are very open and friendly, there's lots to do, it's within easy striking distance of mountains and seaside, food and social scene are brilliant. Jobs in certain fields are plentiful and well paid.

BUT, the cost of living is astronomical. Salaries may be high but so are taxes and you pay for literally everything. Housing is a particular problem. It's frustrating and difficult to buy and renting is ridiculously expensive, even in comparison to London. Infrastructure is problematic, transport especially so people get roped into long commutes.

As a couple we earn in the region of 200k (though dh contracts, so that's not long term/regular) and that doesn't go nearly as far as you'd think.

I'm not dissing it, just make sure you go in with your eyes open.

What about Scotland? Glasgow and Edinburgh have a lot of the advantages of Dublin while still being in the UK and therefore the benefits of lower tax/NHS.

And if he gets a great job and does long hours doing what he loves, it leaves me on my own in a place that I hate just waiting for him to come home. It's not enough for me, and certainly not how I want to live.

This is the crux. Hopefully he WILL get a great job, that's the plan, yes? So this sentence tells you that unless this gets sorted out then you might as well split now, because your marriage will fail. No matter how kind, funny, lovely etc your marriage will fail. You are both quite literally wasting your time - wasting precious time, setting up a life which will eventually lead to resentment, pain, unhappiness.

The staying within an hour of where you are now plan is not possible and you need to tell him that now, and stick to it.

As an outsider, I can't help thinking too that you are being MORE than reasonable. So you're from countries thousands of miles apart, you are willing to compromise by basically staying completely local to his family/country and thousands of miles from yours... but he won't even budge on being an hour from where you are now in a place he knows you dislike? Nope. If he can't even compromise on Dublin, or any of the other similar cities you mention where there would be all the career opportunities he needs (Glasgow is wonderful btw :) ) then I'm afraid that's quite a red flag. Basically, he is refusing to compromise at all and just wants you to fit in with him. Again - your marriage will fail anyway, eventually, if he is like this.

So - you need to put your foot down and explain that if there is going to be no compromise, then you already have no marriage. And, btw, 'DH's career simply pays the bills better than mine (or at least will once the stipend ends and he can.get a good job) and therefore gets priority.' - no, not really. It's a consideration for both of you, but more important is that you both feel you're in a good place where you can both flourish. If not - again, you've shot yourself in the foot - doesn't matter how great his salary is when you're divorcing because you hate your situation. (If the suggestion that he gets the say because he's earning more has come from him - then sorry but that's strike 3 for me here...)

Anyway. You need to sort it. The most important point - do not get pregnant until you have resolved this. Once you have a child, you're stuck. You won't be able to go home without his permission - you'll be able to end the marriage and live elsewhere in the UK of course, but that's it. Don't have a child until this is sorted.