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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not allow anyone to enter a property im paying rent on?

179 replies

BakerBear · 06/02/2018 15:54

We have been tenants in a property for 4.5 years. Never had any rent issues and never seen the landlady in all that time.

We have very recently purchased a house and we have now moved out of the rented one but i am still liable for the rent up until the end of this month as you have to give notice from the date your rent is due so i ve ended up with a big overlap.

The landlady has texted yesterday to ask if we have now moved out and can we now hand back the keys. I texted her back saying we were now in our new home and it would be great to hand the keys back so i could then get a reimbursement of the over paid rent.

She then replied that i could keep responsibilioty of the property until the end of the month as the new tenant wasnt moving in until after then anyway.

I thought this was a bit strange as the letting agency had told me that a new tenant was desperate to move in (landlady uses the find a tenant thing and then manages the property herself) so i then rang the letting agency this morning to ask if the tenant wanted to move in sooner only to be told the new tenant really wants to move in asap! The letting agency has received an email from the landlady saying the new tenant couldnt move in as i was refusing to give the keys back and she didnt want to refund me any rent!!!!!

The letting agency have said they need access to the property to do a EPC certificate as the current one has run out and i have told them under no circumstances must they or anyone else enter that property whilst im still paying the rent!

The letting agency was very funny with me and thought i was being unreasonable.

The rent for the new tenant is £75 a month more than what i was paying so the landlady will be better off refunding me and accept the higher rent from new tenants.

I cant understand this

OP posts:
welshmist · 07/02/2018 12:41

Which they are, I didn`t get where I am today by being lax :)

birdseye2010 · 07/02/2018 12:46

Of course you're being unreasonable. And spiteful.

I don't think you are being spiteful.

The new tenant should pay you the remainder of the rent or the landlady return your rent and the new tenant pay the landlady.

Why should you pay someone else's rent?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/02/2018 15:43

Ye gods the weird interpretations of tenancy law here is quite frightening, in both direction.

  1. Professional cleaning clause is non enforceable, all deposit schemes publish their thoughts on this every year... they will interpret it to mean "cleaned to the same standard as at Check In"
  2. It won't go to court, it goes to arbitration and the decision is binding. Judges look very unfavourably on LLs who go for a second bite of the cherry if arbitration finds against them. Court is for monies in excess of the deposit..
  3. Lack of inventory means that the LL will find it very hard to prove any loss. Not impossible, but very hard, especially if the property is in reasonable condition
  4. After 4 years there will be little life left in décor and some furnishings, so any compensation will be very small amounts, and that is if it was newly decorated at check in

This is my day job... I am not guessing! I make decisions about check out issues every day!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/02/2018 15:49

Oh... and whoever said the T has to prove anything, that isn't how it works. The deposit is always the Ts money... if the LL wants any of it they have to prove they have suffered loss due to Ts actions.

Any clause that states something that contradicts the standard AST is also ignored, as no contract overrides the law and the standard AST is enshrined in law. Additional clauses have to be deemed 'reasonable' at arbitration or in court. Not a certainty!

ShmooBooMoo · 07/02/2018 16:06

As you still have keys go and take 1000 photos in case she tries to say you've damaged the property at all and hold onto your deposit.

rabbit12345 · 07/02/2018 17:00

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Is that why I was so royally done over? I went to the court and had to sit opposite LL and a judge came in and made a decision based on our side of the stories. The LL had no proof at all but the judge accepted their version. I still ended up having to pay the court costs even though the judgement was for £1500 despite £5000 originally being claimed. I ended up with a ccj too as could not pay it all in one go.

BTW I don’t think the LL lied. I think the estate agency did. They were independent and I read a few years later that they were sent out of business for their questionable practices Hmm

rabbit12345 · 07/02/2018 17:01

Meaning was he able to make that decision because it was not court? I always wondered how he was able to make that judgement when there was no proof at all to back it up.

TabbyMack · 07/02/2018 17:08

Willow

The "24 hours" is not necessarily legally enforceable. The LL would have to seek an injunction through the courts for access and there's no guarantee they'd get it. Courts take the tenants right to privacy in their own homes very seriously. As they should.

It is perfectly legal for any tenant to change the locks at any time. They just need to ensure they either change it back again pre-check out or give the LL the new keys.

Willow2017 · 07/02/2018 17:13

Tabby
You have misread my post. I was referring to all the miss information spouted as facts on renting threads😀😀

MsSquiz · 07/02/2018 17:21

With regards to access, it all depends on what is stated in the OPs tenancy agreement. For example, we have stayed in our agreements that tenant must be given 24 hours to allow access for a contractor or someone appointed by us (acting as the landlord). As we hold a key to access the property, the tenant does not need to be there to allow access.
We also have it in the agreement that a tenant must allow access in the last 2 months of tenancy to an appointed person (by the landlord) to carry out any works deemed necessary to ready the property for remarketing (in this case, the EPC)

The tenant does not need to "prove" anything with regards to the deposit, but dated photographs showing the property on departure would always be an advantage to a tenant and can only work in a tenants favour, should it go to dispute

A tenant can change the locks, put should supply the landlord/managing agent with a key and as I said previously, the tenant would probably be charged for a new lock to be fitted on their departure as it would be difficult to prove all keys had been returned to the landlord

Springtrolls · 07/02/2018 17:27

Hopefully, you get a tenant who is fully clued up about their legal entitlements. The tenancy can say what it wants, but if it goes against the tenant's rights then tough.

TabbyMack · 07/02/2018 17:54

Sorry, Willow!

MsSquiz Doesn't matter what's written on a tenancy agreement. The law prevails. And while the tenant can indeed change the locks they do not have to give the LL/agent the keys until they surrender the property.

TabbyMack · 07/02/2018 18:00

It's really time that LL's fully understood that when they have tenants, the property is no longer theirs.

They have responsibilities regarding upkeep and the right to take back possession - but while there's a tenancy in place, the property belongs (to all intents and purposes) to the tenant. They have the same rights as anyone else with regard to their property...how they live, who they let in and which keys they use.

LL's can write whatever clauses they like into their agreements - 24 hours notice, no smoking, no pets - but it would take an injunction & agreement from a judge if they wished to enforce these things, and they are most unlikely to get it.

MsSquiz · 07/02/2018 18:00

@TabbyMack I did say that about surrendering the keys at the end of tenancy in a previous post.
The usual situation would be to give the landlord/agency a copy after a change of lock, but would be entirely down to the tenant.

rabbit12345 · 07/02/2018 20:22

I actually posted up thread that I thought the OP was being a bit spiteful as others have said but having re-read this thread I have completely changed my mind.

Maybe if more tenants exerted their lawful rights, landlords would think twice before taking on the responsibility of landlords. Not saying all LL are unprofessional but there are a fair few that I have come across that through inexperience have ended up not playing by the rules.

Tainbri · 07/02/2018 20:31

I think it's pretty normal for agents or landlords to access property within the notice period. But obviously totally not on to expect you to give keys back and still be paying! Don't you have a deposit you should get back too?

Original poster
BakerBear · 07/02/2018 22:05

No update as of yet.

I havent spoken to the letting agency or landlady.

When i spoke to the letting agency yesterday she said she would email the landlady and see if she can make her see sense (her words)

I paid a deposit of £625 which is a months rent.

OP posts:
Original poster
BakerBear · 08/02/2018 09:58

Well i have just rang the letting agency and they have said they have spoken to the landlady yesterday and she doesnt want the new tenant to move in until the 29th of this month (my rent is paid until the 28th).

The letting agency have explained that i have refused access to the property to do the EPC certificate so the landlady will be in touch with me to get the keys 2 days before the end of my rent period and she will just refund me 2 days rent.

The letting agency have stressed that this is nothing to do with them as she only uses the find a tenant service and that this is between me and her.

OP posts:
birdseye2010 · 08/02/2018 10:00

Can't you contact the LL yourself?

Original poster
BakerBear · 08/02/2018 10:01

Oh yes but i was hoping the letting agency would be more experienced with dealing with this and could make her understand that what she was doing made no sense.

OP posts:
welshmist · 08/02/2018 10:38

The agency are not free to say what they really think to either you or the landlady it would not be professional of them.

Angrybird345 · 08/02/2018 11:03

Id be stubborn and say I needed the property on the last two days, just to piss her off!

Forgottencoffee · 08/02/2018 11:23

The letting agency aren't going to work for free. The LL will have only paid a certain sum which will cover the cost of the tenant find only searches. The letting agency is probably already too involved and will most likely be sick of having to deal with it.

birdseye2010 · 08/02/2018 11:29

Id be stubborn and say I needed the property on the last two days, just to piss her off!

indeed.

The trouble is that she has no incentive to do the right thing. She gets paid either way, so the path of least resistance is what she wants to do, even if you are out of pocket, and the new tenant is inconvenienced.

I'd suggest talking to her and explaining that, and tell her if she is going to be obstructionist about it, then you will be as well.

nitroxTrained · 08/02/2018 11:34

"Id be stubborn and say I needed the property on the last two days, just to piss her off!"

Yes. And no doubt you wholeheartedly agree with those threads where people complain about being looked down on because they rent property and not own it.

Why try to piss someone off? Just because she's done better than you have and has property to spare and make money from?

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