To not allow anyone to enter a property im paying rent on?

[BakerBear]

We have been tenants in a property for 4.5 years. Never had any rent issues and never seen the landlady in all that time.

We have very recently purchased a house and we have now moved out of the rented one but i am still liable for the rent up until the end of this month as you have to give notice from the date your rent is due so i ve ended up with a big overlap.

The landlady has texted yesterday to ask if we have now moved out and can we now hand back the keys. I texted her back saying we were now in our new home and it would be great to hand the keys back so i could then get a reimbursement of the over paid rent.

She then replied that i could keep responsibilioty of the property until the end of the month as the new tenant wasnt moving in until after then anyway.

I thought this was a bit strange as the letting agency had told me that a new tenant was desperate to move in (landlady uses the find a tenant thing and then manages the property herself) so i then rang the letting agency this morning to ask if the tenant wanted to move in sooner only to be told the new tenant really wants to move in asap! The letting agency has received an email from the landlady saying the new tenant couldnt move in as i was refusing to give the keys back and she didnt want to refund me any rent!!!!!

The letting agency have said they need access to the property to do a EPC certificate as the current one has run out and i have told them under no circumstances must they or anyone else enter that property whilst im still paying the rent!

The letting agency was very funny with me and thought i was being unreasonable.

The rent for the new tenant is £75 a month more than what i was paying so the landlady will be better off refunding me and accept the higher rent from new tenants.

I cant understand this

You are responsible for the property until the day you stop being a tenant, which means you are also responsible for any damage done/cleanliness/utilities until then too. I have been in a similar situation and also refused as I had left the flat immaculate and was not prepared to allow workmen etc in before we did the checkout!

I think you're being petty and spiteful and need to grow up. I suspect you're one of those people who thinks LLs should move them into a hotel if the boiler breaks for more than 6 hours but you won't allow them access for an inspection!

The next time there's a thread about people looking down on tenants I'll quote you and link to this thread. A shining example of why.

"The letting agency have said they need access to the property to do a EPC certificate as the current one has run out and i have told them under no circumstances must they or anyone else enter that property whilst im still paying the rent!"

Thanks

Landlord alert

*😁

So let me get this straight. You have moved out of a property where you were living for over 4 years with NO hassle from the landlady. You now have no interest in that property but you will not hand the keys over until you have to?

What difference does it actually make to you now? I think you are being spiteful. Also if you now make it difficult for her what is to stop her from going in and charging you for every little bit of damage that you may have caused.

Don’t assume this won’t happen. We had it happen a few years back where the landlord tried to claim that we caused damage after we left even when they were made aware of the damage when we moved in. They added other stuff to the claim and really tried their luck even adding stuff on that never existed (like a lawnmower) and claiming that I had entered the property after leaving and turned on the taps to cause flooding. There was absolutely no proof from them for any of this but the judge ruled 50/50 as I hadn’t got a receipt when I returned the keys and I had to pay court costs.

@TenancyTroublesAgain

and ... ?

The OP is acting like a complete dickhead as are others like "post the keys back at midnight on the last day".

Wheaton's law. Don't be a dick. The OP's failing miserably. She apparently had a good relationship with the LL or she wouldn't have stayed so long. Now she's moving out she's making life hard for the LL for no reason.

Honestly, if the OP made a thread in 6 months about being unfairly treated by the new LL I'd have a little laugh.

I don't think the OP is acting like a dickhead. Good relationship? They didn't have a relationship. And the fact every poster agrees with the OP (bar maybe three) says a lot.

If the LL wants to be a grabby, then they deserve the OP to be 'petty' in response. Landlord wanted the keys back but didn't want to refund rent despite that constituting an early surrender and somebody else would have moved in the OPs place. Yeah.

Keep on being a great landlord though.

No the landlord is being unreasonable...they shouldn't be getting rent twice for same period from different tenants.

You need to play this carefully make sure their is an email trail and make sure you're meeting them half way... courts like this...

I would email them.

'Please confirm when you wish to do the EPC.
As you know I've moved, but I am visiting the property regularly to check it to the end of my tenancy on February x.
I will surrender keys so your new tenants to take possession early, IF you confirm and refund me the rent I have paid for that period ie from x of Feb til the end of my original tenancy end notice period.

You will have the keys on my receipt of the refund (eg 420£) on confirmation of this amount being credited into my bank account.
I can return the keys the same day to you (and we can check out the property together that day) as I receive the outstanding rental credit due. Please advise what you wish to do. '

YANBU

You’re paying the rent and still have the right to enjoy peaceful possession of the property. The fact you aren’t living in it is irrelevant. Why should you do something to facilitate her being able to make more money when she wouldn’t even refund the rent you’ve paid even tho someone else is also paying her?

I’d tell the letting agent in no uncertain terms you’ll hand back the keys on the last day of the tenancy and not before and then block their number.

What amazing crap being written on here!

Ll wants double rent this month fron 2 sets of tennants but op is being a dick for not handing o er keys for something she will be legally responsible for until the end of the month with no way of lnowing whats going in rhe house.

You cant change the locks.

24 hr notice is legally enforcable.

"She has a good relationship with LL"......except she never sees her and this wonderful LL wants to rip her off for a months rent for nothing.

Its pretty simple LL refunds pary months rent, gets the keys, does the check, new tennant in, increase in rent starts so she misses a days rent but hasnt lost anything due to charging £75 more a month now.

LL being greedy and awkward but its ops fault! Only on mn.

Why is the op being spiteful for not wanting to hand keys back on a property she is renting?
If op hadn’t messed up dates she would still be living there so the ll would still have to wait for the keys.
If the ll wants them back then it’s simple, refund the rent.
If anyone is being childish or a dickhead it’s
The ll.

Damages the ll would have to proof them to the deposit people. Same with missing goods. Bit hard when there was no inventory at the beginning. Plus of course wear and tear.

It also speaks volumes about the ll who is
Moving new people in instantly. No decorating or anything by them done.

Ok can i just reiterate that..

There was NO INVENTORY so therefore she cannot claim i have damaged the property.

She is wasting my money and pissing off the new tenants by not refunding me and allowing them to move in much sooner.

The EPC certificate imo should be done once i have left as having a EPC certificate only has to be in date if you wish to market the property for rent so therefore it is nothing to do with her requirement on my tenancy.

The landlady wants to prepare the property for re letting whilst im still paying the rent on it. She fails to understand that you prepare the property for a new tenant once the old tenant has left.

The new tenants are living with family at the moment and have a 6 week old baby (i was there when they viewed) so they are desperate to get in the house yet the landlord wants the property sitting empty therefore wasting my money and pissing off the new tenants.

Well OP you have your arguments lined up.....

You can't force landlord to reimburse I guess as you are within notice period... And equally they can't make you hand over the keys early.... Stale mate until everyone sees it is in everyone's interest for the keys to be returned and you to be reimbursed

your assumption that she can't charge for damage because there's no inventory is not correct. Have you actually read the lease to see what condition it needs to be in on surrender? On the assumption that your deposit is more than the £400 you're squabbling over, I'd be bending over backwards to accommodate her and giving chapter and verse to the estate agent who can do all teh dirty work on your behalf rather than getting into a slanging match with someone who has the ability (and now apparently the inclination) to cause you problems.

@JackieReacher The condition it needs to be left in is the condition the OP originally found it in, minus fair wear and tear. What the contract says is irrelevant. If for example the carpets were dirty when OP moved in the contract couldn't then stipulate that they pay for a professional carpet clean when they leave.

Op would have to prove she moved into a dirty flat, in that case. The burden of proof would be with her.

you've read her lease have you? Clean / dirty wear & tear isn't everything. Granted it's mostly commercial leases, but there are plenty of instances where a tenant has to give the property back in a very specific condition whcih may or may not relate to the state it was in at the start of the lease. Unless you've read the contract, you're guessing.

Let her do the epc- you are being spiteful because she won't let you off your last months rent. But don't hand the keys back until the end of your tenancy term. I suspect if she put someone else in there you would be entitled to a pro rate return of your rent as she can no longer offer vacant possession. But I wouldn't like to go to court for it.

@JackieReacher Obviously, I have not read her contract. Why would I need to when they can't ask for it to be put in a better condition than it was found in? It means nothing what the contract says, doesn't it?
In the absence of a check-in inventory, dated photos, receipts for a professional clean etc, then surely the onus would be on the landlord to prove if they want to make deductions?

Obviously, if the property WAS cleaned and there is proof of it then any such clause about a professional clean would probably be enforceable and the OP WOULD have to return it to that condition. My point was that the contract can't ask for what wasn't there in the first place, but I don't think it's been said what the situation was about that...

the lease can say whatever it wants within the scope of the law, and there are plenty of leases that specify properties are delivered up in an entirely different condition to that in whcih they are let. It's really not uncommon. I take it you aren't an L&T / property lawyer? There's a huge amount of conjecture spouted as hard fact here, and it's really a case of "read the lease".

@TenancyTroublesAgain

Read the thread again. The LL has stated that the property wont be occupied until the end of the month. She wants access for the EPC Cert. Yes, she's getting it ready for the next tenant to move in immediately after the OP's tenancy ends but that's all and I don't see as a problem.

The LL wouldn't be able to let the new family move in without the new EPC (I don't think).

"Keep on being a great landlord though."

3 properties with each tenant having rented for more than 10 years and 1 for 6. Based on that I'd say we're doing fine.

Fortunately never had a tenant like the OP.

Please don’t risk it. As I said I went to court on the assumption that the LL had no proof and would be laughed out of court. I lost because of a technicality.

For example if the OP moved in and there were dirty carpets, they should have had this noted on an inventory and had the LL sign it. In the absence of an inventory they can’t prove this.

I am concerned that if it goes to court and the tenant loses. It would affect their credit rating. That can be as simple as getting a new mobile phone. Sometimes the high ground is quicksand.

We always decorate from top to bottom, replace carpets and photograph. Those photos form the advertisement but can also be used if a tenant trashes the place. We have been lucky to have had lovely tenants, who stay for a long time.

Only once have we had a bad tenant, the problem was that they ran up debts on the property in other peoples names, which meant I had to contact, everyone they swindled when the bailiffs letters came through so that my new tenants were not liable. I had to say they had done a moonlit flit, very sorry but I had no idea where they had gone. The tenant ran up energy debts in her so called best friends name. I was amazed you could do that.

Those photos form the advertisement but can also be used if a tenant trashes the place.

only if they are part of an independent inventory...