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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not allow anyone to enter a property im paying rent on?

179 replies

BakerBear · 06/02/2018 15:54

We have been tenants in a property for 4.5 years. Never had any rent issues and never seen the landlady in all that time.

We have very recently purchased a house and we have now moved out of the rented one but i am still liable for the rent up until the end of this month as you have to give notice from the date your rent is due so i ve ended up with a big overlap.

The landlady has texted yesterday to ask if we have now moved out and can we now hand back the keys. I texted her back saying we were now in our new home and it would be great to hand the keys back so i could then get a reimbursement of the over paid rent.

She then replied that i could keep responsibilioty of the property until the end of the month as the new tenant wasnt moving in until after then anyway.

I thought this was a bit strange as the letting agency had told me that a new tenant was desperate to move in (landlady uses the find a tenant thing and then manages the property herself) so i then rang the letting agency this morning to ask if the tenant wanted to move in sooner only to be told the new tenant really wants to move in asap! The letting agency has received an email from the landlady saying the new tenant couldnt move in as i was refusing to give the keys back and she didnt want to refund me any rent!!!!!

The letting agency have said they need access to the property to do a EPC certificate as the current one has run out and i have told them under no circumstances must they or anyone else enter that property whilst im still paying the rent!

The letting agency was very funny with me and thought i was being unreasonable.

The rent for the new tenant is £75 a month more than what i was paying so the landlady will be better off refunding me and accept the higher rent from new tenants.

I cant understand this

OP posts:
ThatchersCold · 06/02/2018 16:13

My only concern about not giving in would be if she finds ‘reasons’ to withhold part of your deposit to make up for the loss of her double whammy month of rent. Has she inspected it yet?

notsohippychick · 06/02/2018 16:13

Life’s too short for all this. If you have the time and the energy to stand firm in it then so be it.

But I know what I’d do. Sometimes you just have to let things go. If you are happy in your new home, have somewhere to live, why make life difficult?

flumpybear · 06/02/2018 16:13

Your LL is being pathetic, if she wants to let the house then she should just give you back the extra rent, perhaps others think you're petty, I think it's a case if fairs fair and she's made the decision to be petty

GabriellaMontez · 06/02/2018 16:14

If anyone is being petty or spiteful here it's the landlady.

The op has just stood up for herself and it seems the agent and landlady are put out about it!

brownelephant · 06/02/2018 16:14

tbh I wouldn't hand keys back like this.

if there was an independent check in I would want an independent checkout in my presence before handing keys back.

Original poster
BakerBear · 06/02/2018 16:15

Landlady has not inspected the property at all. I havent seen her for years.

Why wont she accept the property back, get an EPC done the day after and the tenants move in the day after that?

One day of rent lost.

OP posts:
CotswoldStrife · 06/02/2018 16:15

Why don't you agree to get the EPC done if it means you can hand over the keys (with an appropriate rent reduction) earlier? Try bargaining with them.

TonTonMacoute · 06/02/2018 16:16

YANBU re handing back the keys versus a rent refund.

YABU about letting the agents have access for the EPC check.

TenancyTroublesAgain · 06/02/2018 16:16

@ThatchersCold Without a signed check-in inventory that would be difficult and any claims would have to be proved. They could dispute anything.

That being said, I'd go on the last day you're in possession of the keys and take dates photos so they can't say you went back and destroyed the place between now and the end of the month.

whiskyowl · 06/02/2018 16:16

Don't most tenancies have a clause where you have to allow 'reasonable' access to the property owner? Wouldn't the EPC fall under that?

As a PP said, if you have a deposit at stake that is greater than a week's rent, playing hardball might be a tactical mistake! I do agree with you that she owes you the cash if she moves a new tenant in before the end of your paid-up tenancy, though.

TenancyTroublesAgain · 06/02/2018 16:17

Dated photos *

CuriousaboutSamphire · 06/02/2018 16:18

DO NOT HAND OVER THE KEYS UNTIL YOU HAVE A DEED OF SURRENDER... and a full check out!

In law you will remain responsible for EVERYTHING that happens until the end of your tenancy. So the landlord sends in an electrician and he eaves muddy footprints - you are liable for the clean up etc etc etc.

You are NOT being fussy, or a bitch or any of the other shit that has been thrown at you here. You are being sensible. Until there has been a check out and your tenancy has legally ended you remain financially responsible.

Inertia · 06/02/2018 16:18

I wouldn't allow anyone in either, especially as the landlady has said that you have responsibility for the property until the end of the month. If anything gets dirty or damaged you'll end up losing your deposit.

Your landlady can't have it both ways- if she wants you to give the keys back and end the tenancy early then she can reimburse the difference.

Original poster
BakerBear · 06/02/2018 16:18

If she takes the property back tomorrow for example i would be due £425 rent back

OP posts:
SchadenfreudePersonified · 06/02/2018 16:19

Personally I'd post the keys at midnight on the day the tenancy runs out. Don't do anything to help the landlady get her new tenants in quicker i.e. to decorate etc. She is making your life harder than it has to be so I'd be doing the same.

This ^

You are paying for the privilege of having exclusive right of entry, whether you are living there or not. Any checks are not your responsibility.

DrPill · 06/02/2018 16:20

If you're paying rent for the month then the flat is yours for the month. End of.

Forgottencoffee · 06/02/2018 16:22

Legally the LL cannot charge rent for one period to two separate tenants. She’d either have to reimburse you or let them live there rent free until your tenancy ended.

If it were me, I’d want my money back too and would refuse handing back the keys otherwise. I’d be worried about who was liable for any damages during the period of you giving the keys back and your tenancy ending. If you were to just hand them back without signing anything to say you’re ceasing your tenancy early then I’d say you would be liable. Maybe go down that route if she starts to be difficult.

Also, for future reference, tenants have to serve notice around the dates of when you first moved in (e.g. you moved in on the 2nd, you give a months notice from the 2nd of whatever month, regardless of your rent due date). Tenants don’t even have to give notice if they are approaching the end of their tenancy agreement. They could just hand he keys in on the day the tenancy expires. But I digress.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 06/02/2018 16:23

Ooh! Cross post. No inventory leaves her in a tricky position for any deposit deduction!

Now... did you get all the prescribed information within 30 days of the tenancy starting, the deposit protection certificate etc? Is your deposit still protected? You can check that very easily...

And no... the epc won't come under LLs reasonable access, as it is not for the current tenancy!

You don't have to let them in... you don't have a deposit at stake... assuming it is correctly held... that money is yours and the LL had to prove she has suffered loss, which she will find hard to do without an ingoing inventory!

timeisnotaline · 06/02/2018 16:26

I wouldn’t hand the keys back. I have had a totally unreasonable landlord who agreed to two weeks rent refund for us to move out earlier and I didn’t hand the keys back until
The money was in my account- we needed the money but no way was I up for the hassle of chasing him for it once I had no obvious leverage. Of course it drove the agents crazy.

minionsrule · 06/02/2018 16:28

We sort of had something similar in that we moved out of rented into a house we bought. We wanted an overlap date to allow us to go back and clean after moving out but letting agents said we could give months notice anytime, not from date of next rent (I was surprised by that) so final months rent was about 3 weeks or less.
Following previous inspection there were some jobs that needed doing and they called us a day before I was going to give notice to ask if they could come the next day - I told them then that we were going to shortly give notice so landlady said she would postpone work until after we moved out.
I said to DH that if they asked to come in before our tenancy end date to do work I would say no as we were still responsible for state of property so did not want to go back and have to clean more.

They did ask to go in with landlady to see what other remedial work was needed for it to be let out again which I allowed. I went in the day after that date they had given and all seemed fine.
I then went back a few days later (we were still moving some stuff out) and it was obvious they had been in again (things were moved/out of place) which did hack me off as either they changed the date or came in twice - they knew we had moved out at this point but a bit hacked off they never confirmed.
Anyway in answer to your question, there is no good reason not to let them in for an EPC certificate check but I would not allow more than that unless you can give key back early and get a refund. If you can I would say you would like to be present whilst the EPC certificate person is in the house (so they can't do any sneaky stuff).
I would also say you are in there daily to do bits and pieces which will hopefully make sure they don't just go in - I assume they have a spare key?

Original poster
BakerBear · 06/02/2018 16:29

The deposit is in a protection scheme as i have the paperwork for it.

The property is clean and i am checking it every few days. I have turned the water off and boiler.

Im putting the bins out on bin days so all bins will be empty etc.

OP posts:
SweetMoon · 06/02/2018 16:29

Now... did you get all the prescribed information within 30 days of the tenancy starting, the deposit protection certificate etc? Is your deposit still protected? You can check that very easily...

^ Check this, as if not done the LL have to pay you, I think 2 months rent as a fine.

I don't think you are being petty. You are paying rent on a property and if she is going to try and have her cake and eat it, then you can certainly not allow any access until the day you are no longer responsible for the property. Are you able to make sure no one enters the property, now they know you have moved out? I wouldn't out it past them to just go in anyway.

MissMooMoo · 06/02/2018 16:30

YANBU op but I would go back and take dated photos and a video walk through of the property so that you have proof of the condition it was handed back in.

Winefred · 06/02/2018 16:35

Be careful about the insurance situation. Most policies require you to tell them (and pay more) if you're leaving a property empty for more than a fortnight.

Gemini69 · 06/02/2018 16:36

Well done OP... you doing the right thing Flowers