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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not allow anyone to enter a property im paying rent on?

179 replies

BakerBear · 06/02/2018 15:54

We have been tenants in a property for 4.5 years. Never had any rent issues and never seen the landlady in all that time.

We have very recently purchased a house and we have now moved out of the rented one but i am still liable for the rent up until the end of this month as you have to give notice from the date your rent is due so i ve ended up with a big overlap.

The landlady has texted yesterday to ask if we have now moved out and can we now hand back the keys. I texted her back saying we were now in our new home and it would be great to hand the keys back so i could then get a reimbursement of the over paid rent.

She then replied that i could keep responsibilioty of the property until the end of the month as the new tenant wasnt moving in until after then anyway.

I thought this was a bit strange as the letting agency had told me that a new tenant was desperate to move in (landlady uses the find a tenant thing and then manages the property herself) so i then rang the letting agency this morning to ask if the tenant wanted to move in sooner only to be told the new tenant really wants to move in asap! The letting agency has received an email from the landlady saying the new tenant couldnt move in as i was refusing to give the keys back and she didnt want to refund me any rent!!!!!

The letting agency have said they need access to the property to do a EPC certificate as the current one has run out and i have told them under no circumstances must they or anyone else enter that property whilst im still paying the rent!

The letting agency was very funny with me and thought i was being unreasonable.

The rent for the new tenant is £75 a month more than what i was paying so the landlady will be better off refunding me and accept the higher rent from new tenants.

I cant understand this

OP posts:
Original poster
BakerBear · 06/02/2018 18:52

I ve just looked at the EPC website and got the EPC certificate up for the house and its out of date!

According to the gov website you must have a valid one before you market the property for rent and she hasnt done this.

Its 2 months out of date

OP posts:
crimsonlake · 06/02/2018 18:59

Hate to point this out but I would expect the agency and or landlady have a spare set of keys. Knowing you have moved out I would not be surprised if they let themselves into do the checks.

Original poster
BakerBear · 06/02/2018 19:03

I have had a feeling they may let themselves in.

OP posts:
Original poster
BakerBear · 06/02/2018 19:03

It doesnt make sense why the landlady wont let them move in sooner

OP posts:
Springtrolls · 06/02/2018 19:12

I’m sure your allowed to change the barrel as long as you change it back. I would check this and if legit I would do it.

If the thing is out of date a couple of more weeks isn’t your problem

KeepHimJolene · 06/02/2018 19:15

YANBU and yes I found my LL letting himself into the property over the last two weeks when rent was being paid and the property was empty. He changed the locks too then claimed against my deposit with the scheme by slapped me with a huge plumbing bill stating the entire waste system was backed up with used condoms. Cheeky fukker. He threatened to inform every agent in town. The deposit agency accepted his bill and I lost my deposit and the two weeks rent back for an empty property I couldn't access. He claimed I was using it as a place of immoral earning. PS I have a coil was single and not seeing anyone, and was worked from home. I couldn't win. It still irritates me even a decade later.

Lovesprideandprejudice · 06/02/2018 19:17

You don’t have to give keys back while you’re paying and your ll is being cheeky trying for twice the rent.

But you do have to give access as stated in your contract. It’s probably 48 hours notice and you can opt to be there.

Be careful if you’ve got a deposit. Legally you’ve both got fair rights. Ultimately though the ll does have more power because they can just refuse to release and then you have all the bother of going to court. lol probably doesn’t need cash.

Lovesprideandprejudice · 06/02/2018 19:20

You can’t change the lock - neither can the ll.
hope this helps.

rjay123 · 06/02/2018 19:52

Lovespride what’s your backing on that?

The tenant can change the locks if she so wishes.

MsSquiz · 06/02/2018 20:03

A tenant can change the locks if they they wish, but would then be responsible for the cost and would have to hand over all keys to the property on leaving. And may even incur the cost of the locks being changed again if the landlord is not satisfied they have all keys.

With regards to the deposit, make sure you take dated photos on leaving the property clean and tidy, this will help you should you landlord try to claim any of your deposit.

As you have paid the rent up until a certain date, you are entitled to keep hold of the keys as you are legally responsible for the property. A landlord can not accept rent for a period of time and then demand they keys are handed over to give to a new tenant.

The landlord has 2 options:

  1. agree an early release date with you to hand over your keys and she refunds the necessary portion of rent
  2. let you keep hold of the keys until the move out date you gave when you handed in your notice and the new tenant moves in after that date

She cannot legally accept rent from you, make you leave, not refund you and have a new tenant to move in, as she would then have 2 rental payments for an overlapping period of time

I work in a property management company so I hope some of that might help?

Springtrolls · 06/02/2018 20:16

Thought I was going crazy about the lock thing. It's all over the landlord site that the tenants can change and lock the LL out.
Change locks with your new house, and change them back on the day you hand over keys.

OutyMcOutface · 06/02/2018 20:19

Just remember in future that you have no hope of a good reference. If you sell your house don't do it chainfree with the intention of moving into rental accommodation.

Abracadabraapileofbollocks · 06/02/2018 20:23

How long does your lease allow you to leave the property uninhabited?

MsSquiz · 06/02/2018 20:28

@BakerBear is it the landlord or the agent who is arranging the EPC? Usually it would be in the tenancy agreement that you must be given 24 hours notice before a contractor would attend (except in an emergency situation) but you could offer to meet the person carrying out the EPC as you are still responsible for the property

Springtrolls · 06/02/2018 20:47

Why would the op have no hope of a good reference in the future if she happens to sell her house? What because she wants to hold onto keys to a property that she has paid rent for. If she hadn't have moved out yet, the ll would still have to wait to get new tenants in and any work done.

It doesn't matter what's in the tenancy agreement. The op doesn't have to agree to 24 hours notice.

MsSquiz · 06/02/2018 21:03

@Springtrolls if it is in the tenancy agreement that the tenant must be given no less than 24 hours notice of a contractor attendance or property inspection, then as long as the landlord gives her 24 hours notice that someone will attend to carry out the EPC, the landlord will be well within her rights to do so

TenancyTroublesAgain · 06/02/2018 22:20

@MsSquiz No, it doesn't matter what the contract says. That clause is unenforceable. A tenant does not have to agree for anyone to enter the property for anything other than an emergency.

welshmist · 06/02/2018 22:42

I do a walk through with tenants when they are leaving to discuss any repairs decorations that need doing. That way they can put it right so that they receive a full refund of their deposit. I have also shown prospective tenants around if that is agreeable with the tenant.

You say you have had no contact with the landlord for 4.5 years. I hope the landlord has done the gas safety checks annually. I would leave the heating on frost in this weather.

If a tenant leaves early I refund the balance of the last month. She is a lucky landlord if you have been there so long, no loss of rent in all that time from re-letting.

Winebottle · 06/02/2018 22:53

@TenancyTroublesAgain

They don't have to let them in but they would be in breach of their contract and liable for any damages.

TenancyTroublesAgain · 06/02/2018 23:01

Can you really be in breach of a contract when the clause relating to it is illegal? Confused

TheHungryDonkey · 06/02/2018 23:02

Fuck me. I declare the 24 hour landlord access to be the biggest legal misunderstanding on Mumsnet ever.

TenancyTroublesAgain · 06/02/2018 23:05

@TheHungryDonkey What are you saying is the case?

TheHungryDonkey · 07/02/2018 06:31

That landlords may give 24 hours notice to come in but the tenant does not have to let them in if it’s not convenient. Otherwise, we’d have a nation of tenants who have to take days off work at short notice because the landlord wants to come in tomorrow. Despite what I’ve seen letting agents and landlords write on Mumsnet, the 24 hour thing is a myth and does not trump quiet enjoyment.

My last landlord was an absolute nightmare. I would come home to find him in my flat without telling me. He looked an absolute dick when it ended up in court.

Ski4130 · 07/02/2018 07:41

You're not being unreasonable not wanting to hand keys back unless a rent refund is forthcoming, but I do think you're being unreasonable not letting the agents in to do an EPC. That's general maintenance, and they've given you notice, it's not inconveniencing you as you no longer live there, so in the big scheme of things I think that's just being a bit petty.

Ski4130 · 07/02/2018 07:45

Also, to add, I've been a tenant and I was happy enough to let people in when things needed fixing, so I felt it worked both ways, and let the LL in for 6 monthly checks of the property, with notice. When we gave notice we also allowed viewings so the property could be let quicker, it was little or no hassle, so I couldn't see the purpose of refusing.