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C4 now - the James Bulger case **Trigger Warning - Contains Info about the case** (Title edited by MNHQ)

999 replies

Hairgician · 05/02/2018 21:36

Sat watching this now.

I do not accept the view that those 2 boys were treated unfairly. They murdered that poor little boy and they knew what they were doing and that it was wrong.

They should be rotting in jail. Aibu to say justice not served??

OP posts:
NeedsAsockamnesty · 06/02/2018 11:13

Seeing as children cannot be deemed “Fraser Competant” until they are 14 I think it was pretty piss poor that these children we tried as adults

FYI there is no firm lower age for Frazier Competant even if it’s acknowledged that it would be unusual for a under 14 to be able to make medical decisions, it’s not unheard of and a lower age is not regulated

BashStreetKid · 06/02/2018 11:34

Plenty of people come from abused homes and do not premeditate the abduction and subsequent murder of a toddler.

Completely irrelevant. Everyone's experience is different. We don't expect every child from a safe, caring home to go through the same pathway in life; why should it be different if that is not the case?

MissMoneyPlant · 06/02/2018 11:34

Catched It's more frightening, but more productive to ask "what led to this happening?" "What set of circumstances created this as a possibility?" "In what way are we all culpable, as a society, of turning a blind eye to the suffering that led to this terrible event?".

I agree with this, definitely.

But I still think that it reaches a point where we have to protect others by keeping people like this locked up.

How "responsible" these two are for their actions can be debated, but it should be uncoupled from the decision to release them. I mean, there are plenty of people locked up for fear they will harm others, without us blaming them, due to mental health issues for example.

ReanimatedSGB · 06/02/2018 11:35

Maxine Carr had to be protected by the police despite the fact that she didn't kill or physically harm anyone. Not only that, but the slobbering, slavering mobs went after at least one woman who had nothing to do with the Soham case, or Carr.

There is something hugely wrong about the way specific cases are milked in the media.

joystir59 · 06/02/2018 11:39

Two ten year old boys should 'rot in jail'? Should anyone ROT in jail? I'm in favour of long/life sentences appropriate to the crime committed but think these two should have received child psychotherapy and truly rehabilitative care.

treaclesoda · 06/02/2018 11:45

another woman accused of being Maxine Carr

BlackroseYellow · 06/02/2018 12:12

This is such a horrible story and my heart goes out to James' family.

Is it correct to assume all siblings were quickly removed from RT & JV parents given the level of abuse? There seems mixed reports on some of this however if it is true then what was done about it?

I am unsure what I feel is the "right" answer to how they were tried in court and wither they should have ever been released however I do believe both their parents should have been fully prosecuted for any abuse and held accountable in some way if there is evidence of any kind of abuse.How any of them live with themselves I do not know.

littlemissalwaystired · 06/02/2018 12:26

I'm watching this now and I wish I hadn't started it. I feel sick and extremely close to tears, that poor little boy and his poor family. Heartbreaking.

LagunaBubbles · 06/02/2018 12:33

Some people are just born evil

That's your opinion, it's not fact. There's no evidence for it

Well depends your definition of evil. Lots of evidence for genetic links to psychopathic personality disorder traits in children.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 06/02/2018 12:48

I don't want to live in a country where adults bay for the blood of ten year olds any more than I want to live in one where ten year olds commit murder. The worrying thing is there are a sight more adults who would have liked to actually kill Thompson and Venables than there are ten year olds who kill toddlers. The pervasiveness of the mob on this is horrifying.

And yes, those adults wanted to kill T&V because they'd done a truly horrific thing - but the thought that their veneer of civilization is so thin that it can be triggered by the death of one child into greeting the deaths of two with glee, is awful.

pepperpot99 · 06/02/2018 12:57

What a nasty thread. Really ugly.

I expect some of you have dartboards with the two boys' faces on them don't you?

The herd mentality is never pretty, and it has certainly plummeted new depths on this hate-filled thread. Baying for blood doesn't begin to cover it.Hmm

LittleLionMansMummy · 06/02/2018 13:22

25 years on and I still don't know how I feel about the Bulger case, except an overwhelming sadness that certain situations in society and families could possibly lead to such a heart breaking turn of events.

I look at my gorgeous, kind, protective and loving 7yo ds and couldn't picture him doing something like that. Then I catch him deliberately tripping up his baby sister. The next moment he's reading her a bedtime story and whispering 'night night baby girl' to her. A trip is a long way from murder, I know. But he's a kid from a good family, who has empathy, who has, I think, got his brain wired correctly. Yet he lacks impulse control and an understanding of potential consequences.

Those boys sounded so young and in many ways so vulnerable themselves. But as a mother I'd have wanted them locked away forever.

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/02/2018 13:40

For those saying people are not born evil, how do you explain psychopaths?

Heartofglass
More than one person has explained psychopaths aren’t born evil and aren’t even necessarily evil. Perhaps you should reread the posts or do a bit of research on psychopathy yourself. Again, not all psychopaths kill or pull legs off spiders.

JediJim · 06/02/2018 13:45

My understanding is that Venables came from a decent-ish family, although parents had separated. I believe it was Venables mother who encouraged him to tell the truth at the police station.
Thompson lived with his mother and siblings. I’m not sure what up bringing each of them had, but they both had siblings and to my knowledge the other children were not put into care following this tragedy. Therefore it seems the parent couldn’t have been that terrible but I may be completely wrong.
Whatever the case, poor little James was selected at random. Bloody hell in another time or place I could have been one of our children taken ( doesn’t bear thinking about).

Both James parents have conducted themselves with dignity throughout it an unimaginable position. I hope they are both fully supported for the rest of their lives in any way they need.

BashStreetKid · 06/02/2018 13:46

But I still think that it reaches a point where we have to protect others by keeping people like this locked up.

How would it have protected anyone over the past few years to keep Robert Thompson locked up?

Rebeccaslicker · 06/02/2018 13:47

Bash - we assume he's living quietly (I saw one report that said he lives with a man who does know who he really is).

But we wouldn't necessarily know if he had committed other crimes, given the identity change.

BashStreetKid · 06/02/2018 13:53

It's been accepted by the police, the Bulgers and everyone else in the know that Thompson hasn't committed other crimes. Additionally, there are enough police who ae in the pockets of journalists for us to be sure that if he were ever arrested it would be headline news within a very short space of time indeed.

80sMum · 06/02/2018 13:54

Has anyone else read Blake Morrison's book, "As If"?

I recommend it for anyone interested in the trial of Robert Thompson and Jon Venables. I found it very, very sad and also deeply thought-provoking.

Rebeccaslicker · 06/02/2018 14:01

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JediJim · 06/02/2018 14:04

Even if Thompson never re offended again I doubt that is any consolation to James family. It also doesn’t compensate what he did that day, nothing ever can. But that’s just my opinion, nothing more.
If he has to live on edge for the rest of his life, so be it.

MooseBeTimeForSnow · 06/02/2018 14:18

80smum. Indeed I have, it was recommended to me by my criminal law lecturer at University. A very thought provoking read.

BashStreetKid · 06/02/2018 14:31

Oh dear, Rebecca. It's noticeable that there's a number of people on this thread who really think that slinging around childish insults is a substitute for facts.

I wonder why so many people are so desperate to say that Thompson must have reoffended despite the existence of zero evidence that he has, as opposed to plenty of evidence that Venables has?

Actually, come to think of it, no I don't. I can work it out.

JustOneMoreStep · 06/02/2018 14:33

I am a little younger than T&V but old enough to remember it happening. I studied this as a case study whilst at university (post grad) however and remember being asked about the case and given various media interpretations and then being asked as a group who thought that T&V had been mis-treated: nobody did. At that stage we were given case files to study and every single one of us changed our minds by the end of it.

The issue for me around if they should have been tried as adults is not in any way about if they should have served a shorter sentence or been treated more leniently, but simply at 10 years old they did not, and would not have had the capacity to understand what was happening in terms of a trial. This is irrelevant of their personal background, no 10 year old would have the capacity to understand the complexity of the crown court system, no matter how idealic a background they had, in fact many adults don't understand the system process but the difference is, it is reasonable to expect an adult to seek out the information about the system, what to expect, an adult is able to seek out representation that they feel is going to best meet there needs. These things are not reasonable to expect of any child, so therefore these things had to be provided/chosen by others (adults) in the case of T&V. That's not to say that the representation and guidance they had wasn't good- simply an acknowledgement that they were not able to gain this for themselves because they didn't have the capacity to do this for themselves because they were children, and therefore to put them through an adult system was intrinsically unfair. The issue that really needs to be looked at is what system should be put in place to enable a fair system for the trial of children, and this is also true of children committing much more 'minor' crimes.

In relation to their ability to understand right and wrong, my opinion is (as was found and enabled them to be tried in an adult court) they did understand what they were doing was wrong. What I am not sure of is if they understood the actuality of how wrong it was. Both T&V were exposed to vast amounts of age innaorpriate material, the extent to which they were abused can be debated, however I've never heard anyone try to claim each boy had any adults providing a strong moral compass giving consequence for their actions, they weren't regular school attenders so family life was the norm for them. This included a lot of very violent films and video games, one claim was that these images were being acted out in the horrific acts against poor little James, and I wholeheartedly believe both boys knew this was wrong, I even believe that V more than T(who has some learning difficulties) knew that such acts would end up killing James. I'm not completely confident that they both understood (again particularly T) that death meant gone forever.

I honestly don't believe there is an easy answer, I think serious questions need to be asked of the justice system without the emotional hype. Locking up and throwing away the key T&V isn't really justice for James, it's just 3 lives lost instead of 1, and I can't imagine anything will really bring solice for the Bulger family and the loss of their dear boy- even if we re-introduced the death penalty, so perhaps the best thing we can do is look at what justice is, what it means, and how we can best serve the victim and the perpetrator when it comes to crimes committed by children. A system where there can be no question of if the trial is fair of a child, can be the best justice for James at this stage, and I'd welcome this to happen in James name to really honor him, so that his suffering was not all in vain.

For what it's worth, I do think V should be incarcerated for life now, he has acted unthinkably as a child and that's one thing but he has had an awful lot of therapies and support as well as money spent on him and he had proven himself to be a continued risk. In that instance he should be removed from public life.

Aridane · 06/02/2018 14:35

Thanks, Rebecca

babyccinoo · 06/02/2018 14:40

Sorry Bash, I wouldn't rely on "there are enough police in the pockets of journalists" to be "sure" about anything, thanks. Does that tinfoil hat keep you warm at night?!

We would definitely hear about it if Thompson re-offends.

We know Maxine Carr had a baby a few years ago, even though she has a new identity.

The press do know V&T's new identities. They are just court ordered not to reveal them.