C4 now - the James Bulger case **Trigger Warning - Contains Info about the case** (Title edited by MNHQ)

[Hairgician]

Sat watching this now.

I do not accept the view that those 2 boys were treated unfairly. They murdered that poor little boy and they knew what they were doing and that it was wrong.

They should be rotting in jail. Aibu to say justice not served??

Those two boys had been terribly abused themselves. Their parents are the ones who should have been thrown in jail to rot.

But RT's father was brought up in the same way as he brought up his sons (each sibling picked on younger sibling).

And RT's mum was beaten by her alcoholic dad and was then beaten by her alcoholic husband.

It really is a cycle of abuse.

I won’t be able to watch this. I feel such sympathy to James’ family what they have been through is beyond belief and to still show such dignity and strength is a testament to them.
I can’t bear to think about how Jame’s was tormented by the pair of them and all the missed opportunities to stop it happening.
They were hell bent on that happening that day they’d already tried to snatch away another child earlier.
I can’t feel anything towards the killers and their families but disgust.
RIP beautiful Jame’s.

Why have none of their siblings done the same thing?

The families were all given new identities, if they did anything, we wouldn't know their real identities.

To add probably already been made number ours times not read full thread but abuse does not equal abuse lots of people have been through abusive upbringings and not done the same.

I think the way people salivate over this case is almost as grim as the case itself.

I very much agree with this. Nobody is denying that this was a horrendously awful case. Two very damaged and neglected children and their toddler victim. But some cases in the public eye like the McCann disappearance and this one turn normal people into a salivating mob - trying to outdo each other in terms of how much it affected them, or coming up with new and novel punishments, or reading every little snippet about the case. It's all very, very odd.

As for Denise no longer having the energy to be angry, it makes me feel that I should be angry on her behalf. Share the burden with her almost. Nothing to do with 'relishing' the details.

But you're not really sharing the burden are you? Are you fighting for Venables to go to jail for a long time?

Therefore feeling anger on her behalf, 25 years later, seems a bit spurious.

I would have expected those who had been in contact with them to have said they expressed remorse but they didn't
All the documented evidence even from the police and then staff at the place they were 'rehabilitated' all said they didn't at any point display any remorse.

They won't.

According to Dan Hughes who is an expert in childhood trauma , children's brains develop in this order...

1. Attachment
2. Reward/Punishment – cause and effect
3. Social Interaction – for example, reading non-verbal cues
4. Reflecting/Reasoning and making sense of things – story telling.
5. Executive Function and complex thinking, e.g. problem solving, long term reasoning. Delaying inhibitions and the ability to do what you don’t feel like doing, empathy.

If you don't develop #1, you won't develop #2-5

These children didn't express remorse because they couldn't.

You can understand how people were scared that anyone let alone children could be capable of such cruelty combined with the media ‘video nasties’ soon at the time led to mob mentality I don’t judge that response now as a parent I understand it more. It’s unnerving to think this could happen

Regarding the 'born evil' comment, I watched the Trevor McDonald programme last week where he interviewed the American serial killer. The killer said he had a normal happy childhood with no problems yet still went on to enjoy murdering and torturing people. Where did that come from? I'm not saying I agree with the born evil theory but how and why do people enjoy up with such dreadful behaviours?

*end

For those saying people are not born evil, how do you explain psychopaths? I worked with someone who had killed her boyfriend, perfectly fine upbringing, no history of abuse. All she ever talked about was how hard it had been for her and her family since all this had 'happened to her'. No mention of her boyfriends parents and how it might be affecting them. She made me feel very uneasy.
Those boys knew what they were going to do that day, why did they pick someone so young who couldnt fight back? This was pre meditated and it sickens me to think that they were ever allowed out into the community again, especially as one of them turned out to be a paedophile. I have a 2yr old and i wouldnt give a shit how old they were if anyone had ever done anything like that to him. Imagine how scared he was. Hearing them say he was crying for his mummy and they were throwing bricks at him telling him to shut up, it makes me cry just typing it.

There has also always been a certain amount of people using this case to further their own agendas. The Murdoch press, for example, love whipping up a mob, which can then be directed, or distracted. Keeping the proles in a constant state of mingled sentimentality and rage works pretty well for keeping them in their place, after all. Hence all the ghoulish detail and demands that the families be identified etc. At the time, there was a fair bit of pro-censorship activity and enthusiasm in the government, which led to a lot of spurious bollocks about horror films having 'made them do it' (apparently one uncle of one of them had once rented a horror film, but no specific evidence the boys had watched it or any other).
I wouldn't be that surprised if, fairly soon, we start getting proposals to bring back the death penalty, which will then be piggybacked onto this case because Thompson and Venables are now adults, so there will be no actual need for the thickos to have to contemplate the execution of children in any detail...

I'm the same age as James would have been now and I have a 2yo DS. I cried absolute buckets of tears for Denise this morning. That poor baby just wanted his mummy. She lives with that everyday.

The boys were 10 and I don't believe in locking them away forever, but surely there was some middle ground between 8 years in a unit and life behind bars forever.

My son was just a bit younger than Thompson and Venables - although he possibly looked older than he was at the time, being tall. I became aware of a sort of wariness about boys of that age during that time. It made me sad. The main incident I remember is being with him in the GP waiting room and a grandmother came in with a toddler. I was talking to DS and the toddler came over to look, like they do, and DS said "Hello - what's your name?" We both smiled at him - and the grandma came over, glared at DS (not me?) and took her grandson's hand and led him away. It really was very pointed and bewildering.

I often think how James' mother would have been treated if this happened now. The internet would be awash with sanctimonious arseholes saying that they would never turn their back on their child for even a second because you just can't take the risk.

Whilst people 'other' perpetrators of terrible crimes, they also 'other' the victims. It's as if they can convince themselves that an awful thing would never happen to them because they are so much better

I wonder what Thompson and Venables' parents and siblings have to say about all this.

I'm glad someone has mentioned the Murdoch press.

People will always be obsessed / fascinated ( call it what you will ) with cases like this.
For a start they’re extremely rare, but more importantly, it could have happened to any of us. Who hasn’t taken their eyes of their toddler for a few seconds whilst out & about? I certainly have.
People are fascinated with horror & evil ( if they weren’t we wouldn’t have 1000’s of horror films ) but here was everyone’s worst nightmare happening to an ordinary woman in an ordinary situation, not a crazed man running around an American Town in a clown mask, ( that’s never going to happen to me - it’s just a film ) but a real situation happening to real people. So we look on in bewilderment and shock, but with an default position of, ‘thank god it wasn’t us, because it so easily could have been’.

Morning, everyone.

This is a really tough subject, and we've had quite a lot of reports.

We need to hit the pause button so that we can comb over it all; we're going to temporarily suspend the thread now.

Many thanks to all who got in touch

Babyccino - I meant at the time. Neither of them were the oldest in their family. Whilst the Thompson brothers did kick the shit out of each other (and one threatened another with a knife, I seem to recall reading), they still didn't do what Thompson and Venables did to a young child who should have inspired protective instincts in them had things been wired up as they should be, not murderous ones.

The Primark toddler abduction in Newcastle was also horrifying, although fortunately had a happier ending. that image of a trusting toddler being led away by children to god knows what is seared on our consciousness as a nation, I think.

Babyccino
I'm not angry 25 years later.
I'm still angry 25 years later. And I'm not 'fighting' for Venables to go to prison.
I'm saying that Venables was not rehabilitated; just treated as if he was.
Efforts were made to ensure that Thompson confronted and understood the pain that he had caused. To feel compassion for James (which is not the same as blaming Thompson).
This would have been extraordinarily distressing for Thompson and very emotionally difficult for his carers to facilitate.
Would you have liked to spare him this distress? If something similar happened again, would you be 'fighting' to spare the perpetrator the massive distress deemed necessary for his rehabilitation? It's very pity inspiring.

The more I think about it the more it bothers me that they're given new identities. Shouldn't people be allowed to protect themselves from someone like this? In the same way you should be allowed to know where sex offenders are?

Enid
They have had to be given new identities, it’s our fault.

We rarely give these orders last time I looked it had only been done 4 times (Mary bell Maxine Carr and these two boys). We created the need by setting up the circumstances that led to the extreme and frenzy type behaviour by a large portion of the public