Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

C4 now - the James Bulger case **Trigger Warning - Contains Info about the case** (Title edited by MNHQ)

999 replies

Hairgician · 05/02/2018 21:36

Sat watching this now.

I do not accept the view that those 2 boys were treated unfairly. They murdered that poor little boy and they knew what they were doing and that it was wrong.

They should be rotting in jail. Aibu to say justice not served??

OP posts:
ghostyslovesheets · 05/02/2018 21:51

oh ffs yes I KNOW I am arguing with the people saying they should have been - that's how debates work

Original poster
Hairgician · 05/02/2018 21:51

Yea pretty grim viewing when you hear the tapes of them talking about what they did to that boy.
They took him knowing full well he would never see his mum again.

Ps thanks hq for editing title😁

OP posts:
Cronuts · 05/02/2018 21:52

No doubt they were products of their upbringing but what was the judge supposed to do, slap on the wrists because they had a bad start to life?

Plenty of people have awful upbringings, they don't torture and murder toddlers.

The fact that one has gone on to repeatedly view child sexual abuse is proof that they shouldn't have been released.

FannyWisdom · 05/02/2018 21:52

Blubbing too.
Losers in every single direction.
Poor James.

AdidasGirl · 05/02/2018 21:53

I'm watching it and feel sick to my stomach.

Lana1234 · 05/02/2018 21:53

I'm from the area in Liverpool where it happened, Bootle. I was around the same age as James at the time of the murder. I can't bring myself to watch this, I find it really hard to get my head around still. I don't know what the answer was for them two at the time. Jon Venables is currently in prison though on child pornography charges and apparently has never shown an ounce of remorse in his life and also broke his bail conditions before by coming back to Liverpool. It's his second time on this offense btw. He can absolutely rot for all I care.

My heart just breaks for the Bulgers tbh, the pain is etched across Denises face and I can understand completely how she feels justice was never served for James.

Screamer1 · 05/02/2018 21:53

I think the programme is raising a broader question of what we consider to be children in the eyes of the law and how these children may be treated.

PoorYorick · 05/02/2018 21:53

If a ten year old punched another in the playground, everyone would agree that punishment was in order because ten is quite old enough to know that's wrong.

I absolutely cannot fathom how anyone could think it doesn't apply in the case of a crime that is almost literally unspeakable.

ghostyslovesheets · 05/02/2018 21:53

The fact that one has gone on to repeatedly view child sexual abuse is proof that they shouldn't have been released

no it's evidence that ONE of them still presented a risk

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 05/02/2018 21:54

Was justice done.

8 years in a unit, and not even one day in an adult jail. No it certainly was not.

They may have had their troubles. However why should baby James and his family have paid for them. We've all got our demons. No one has led a perfect fairy tale of a life. Denişe even said herself. She has never asked for the key to thrown away, but 8 years is a joke.
Oh and all that they don't know right from wrong at 10. I knew right from wrong at 10.

Fintress · 05/02/2018 21:55

I couldn't bear to watch it. In one of Paul Britton's books (forensic pathologist) he went into great detail about this case. I had to skip it, it was horrific.

FeedtheTree · 05/02/2018 21:55

Is there something inherently innocent and forgiveable about the state of childhood? At what age do we switch to demonising them? 18? Is a person automatically redeemable or not fully culpable just because they are young? If one child knows it's wrong to steal and smack aged five but another doesn't know it's wrong to kidnap and brutalise aged 10 is it only the fault or chance of their upbringing? If it is, why does it stop being the fault of their upbringing when they come of age? Adulthood isn't a flicked switch.

Beansonapost · 05/02/2018 21:57

Isn't Jon venables a danger to children?

They should have been jailed for life as has been proven, he clearly is incapable of rehabilitation.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 05/02/2018 21:57

They knew exactly what they were doing.
They lured that poor innocent trusting little baby away from his mother and tourtured him while he sobbed for his mummy.
Evil wicked twisted shits.

Screamer1 · 05/02/2018 21:58

I don't think anyone is disputing that punishment was appropriate. That is an absolute.

However that's doesn't preclude questioning whether the reporting of the case was appropriate, or whether children being tried as adults is the best to deal with those children who commit crimes

juddyrockingcloggs · 05/02/2018 21:58

I'm not clever enough to know how these boys came to do what they did. I'm not clever enough to know what would have been the best way to have dealt with them. What I think however is that, having read how they were treated in 'prison' was not punishment enough for the crime. It clearly wasn't deterrent enough to prevent Jon Venables from offending again. I cannot imagine how that little boy felt and I cannot even begin to imagine how Denise fergus feels, forever, for the rest of her life and I think for her and her son, justice wasn't served.

Cronuts · 05/02/2018 21:58

no it's evidence that ONE of them still presented a risk

@ghosty no, there's no presented a risk about it, he is a risk which is why he's back in prison Hmm

JoeyMaynardssolidlump · 05/02/2018 21:59

Horrific. My second son was exactly the same age as James when he was taken. I look at my young man now and feel utter sadness for the Bulger Family.

It’s inexplicable how two children could have done such a terrible thing and I think they were treated fairly. I completely understand the family thinking it was a light sentence though.

TheInimitableMrsFanshawe · 05/02/2018 22:00

I don't see how anyone who knows what they actually did to James could possibly start wibbling about impulse control and not understanding. You must have forgotten, or you never knew to start with.

Thanks, I’m watching too, I’ve listened to the extracts from the tapes Hmm

I don’t see how anyone can’t understand that for a ten year old to get to that place, they have been grossly failed by the adults around them and are in need of help and compassion, not bitter condemnation by a baying mob.

I am particularly Hmm about the idea of this program holding up Kelvin Mackenzie as any kind of appropriate moral barometer. Would he have gone for then jugular in the same way if his paper wasn’t trying to buy back readers in Merseyside?

windchimesabotage · 05/02/2018 22:00

The whole thing is grim. I think the way people salivate over this case is almost as grim as the case itself.
Of course those boys shouldnt have been tried as adults they were children themselves!! The whole thing was handled really badly and its honestly no wonder that one of them is still in and out of prison.

I cant ever watch anything like this because I think it brings out the worst in people. I dont want to see a load of fully grown apparently sane adults banging on and foaming at the mouth about the death penalty and 'throwing away the key'

crunchymint · 05/02/2018 22:01

They were tried in a full court of law, and would not have known what was happening a lot of the time. Totally wrong.

lostmyfeckingkeysagain · 05/02/2018 22:02

All those saying "at ten you know right from wrong" clearly don't have any understanding of developmental trauma. These boys were not typical ten year olds from typical families. They suffered abuse and neglect in their early years that will have damaged them significantly so emotionally and intellectually they were younger than their chronological ages. "Right and wrong" isn't something you are born knowing instinctively, it's something you learn. Not all children have the opportunity to learn right and wrong. Some children are also exposed to violence and sexualised behaviour when they are too young to comprehend what they are witnessing.

They did a terrible, terrible thing. But they were still children and their case was handled the way it was in order to appease the tabloids and a general public who were more interested in revenge than in justice.

fleshmarketclose · 05/02/2018 22:03

They were ten years old, troubled children from abusive families of course they didn't deserve to be locked up for life.

BifsWif · 05/02/2018 22:03

I read his dads book, which gave the full details of what exactly they did to that baby.

They both had blue paint handprints on their clothes where he had been trying to hold on to them for help.

I wouldn’t have lost a wink of sleep if those two ten year olds had never seen the light of day again.

worridmum · 05/02/2018 22:03

They served their allotted time or do you want 10 year old to be put into adult prisons?.

Uk normal maxium sentence for murder is 15 years (this is the life sentence) they served over half the maximum sentence that could be imposed only in speical circumstances can a true whole life sentence be imposed and only in cases where they contine to be a danger to society not simply because the general public want harsher sentecing for the odd cases (this mass hystra is NOT a good basis for a law abiding society).

If you want to treat a 10 year old like an adult, then why bother having laws around movies , drinking , smoking and voting because the law and common sense recognize that they are NOT adults and should not be treated as such it was a travisty that they were tried in a ADULT court when they are in fact CHILDREN and should of been tried as such.

Yes there crime was heinous but lets not forget the fact they were CHILDREN not ADULTS so they should not be treated as an adult.