To really hate it when atheists take the piss out of those who believe in God?

[sharkirasharkira]

I have several FB friends who are obvious atheists, and often share things about science and/or about the concept of God being stupid -basically saying that anyone who believes in God is an idiot, a child (with an 'imaginary friend') or someone who has no idea about science and the universe.

I get that not everyone has faith in a higher being/religion etc but why the childish name calling and the necessity to take the piss out of those who do? It just really irritates me! Belief in God and an appriciation of science are not mutually exclusive. I find it quite offensive that people who don't know my personal beliefs are essentially saying that if I believe in God I must be an idiot or a child who believes in magical sky fairies, because theres no possible way I can believe in evolution (for example) and be an agnostic.

Aibu to think that people should just let others believe what they want to believe without mocking them for it, even if they don't agree with it?

Do you think it may have been different if there was a different headteacher?

That’s the problem. A system that allows the religion of an influential individual to impose those beliefs on the whole non-denominational school.

JassyRadlett - I'm glad they have challenged this, and I hope it changes because it is not right.

Well for one couple their eldest is now 13, and they’ve had this across schools since P1, so they’re not holding out much hope.

This is my experience of it, and I know this isn't the case everywhere, but it really should be. I would be fighting for change too.

The question is, now you’re aware, are you going to fight for change?

Some pupils may be lucky enough to receive almost none, but that shouldn't be on the whim of the teaching staff and their personal views.

My DP certainly received none, except in RE, in both primary and secondary.
I agree there should be stricter guidelines, so that the beliefs of all children are respected. No child should be forced or disadvantaged, this doesn't echo with 'the rights of the child'.

That’s the problem. A system that allows the religion of an influential individual to impose those beliefs on the whole non-denominational school.

Which I think is the same reason the church is selective is teaching staff within a RC school. It should be who is best for the school, in delivering their values and aims stated within the schools ethos.

The question is, now you’re aware, are you going to fight for change?

It is something I will look out for and challenge if not right, I would have if I had experienced it differently in the past.

Should we have Christian/Jewish/Muslim et al hospitals? Open to all in theory, but in practice the members of the religion go to the top of the waitings lists, and all the staff have to be practicing members too. You'll visited at your bedside by a Vicar, Rabbi or Imam whether you like it or not and every day at 11am will be required to join in with prayers. It's OK...you can just stand/sit/lie quietly but you have to be there.

Most people would not support this idea. The NHS is strictly secular and faith-blind. It's irrelevant what your personal beliefs are...it's a public service, open to all. It wouldn't work any other way.

But somehow it's perfectly OK for an equally important public service...education...to be infested by the personal beliefs of the staff and the parents of the users (not the users themselves, notably).

It's simply unnacceptable and I think religious parents who are OK with the idea need to ask themselves why. Why do you want your child in a Christian or Muslim school? Do you seriously believe that your religious ideology is so superior to that of anyone else that it must be present in every second of your child's life? If so then you have some nerve proclaiming "the deepest of respect" for all other religions and world views, frankly.

All schools should be secular. Not "atheist", btw...secularism is not the political wing of atheism, as some suppose. It is the removal of all religion in order to provide true equality. Religious people tend not to want equality, though.

It is something I will look out for and challenge if not right, I would have if I had experienced it differently in the past.

Here’s what you can do: write to your MSP, write to your local churches and their governing structures expressing your concern that there isn’t a level playing field for all children in non-denominational schools and that despite your faith, you do not wish to see it prioritised or promoted in those schools.

I’ll leave the problem of state funding for any schools alone for now.

TabbyMack - this is probably because religion has no place in medicine, or health.
The government obviously find it important within education.

If you aren't religious you probably won't understand why religious people feel it is important to be part of their child's education.
I do think secular school would help massively with bullying with happens here between non-denominational and

Why not have schools where religion isn't taught at all though? So many people on this thread seem to think it's all make believe, so why would you want your child being taught that?

JessyRadlett- I am going to bring it up for discussion within a religious group I am part of, and hope to get others on side to take more action.
I work within a lot of local schools, and would challenge people failing to following the curriculum and guidelines properly.

TabbyMack - this is probably because religion has no place in medicine, or health.

Based on what? Numerous other western countries have no problem with religion being involved with medicine and healthcare, and church organisations running hospitals.

The government obviously find it important within education.

A government finding something ‘important’ (or electorally expedient, or convenient, or too hard to unpick) doesn’t automatically make it right, or beneficial, or moral.

You’ve had explained how the curriculum and guidelines are inadequate and how the promotion of Christianity means that opt outs don’t work, that they are inherently discriminatory by ‘othering’ children and removing them from important moments in the life of the school, and singling them out.

Nice that you’ll discuss it, but you’re still supporting a discriminatory system.

*this is probably because religion has no place in medicine, or health.
The government obviously find it important within education.

If you aren't religious you probably won't understand why religious people feel it is important to be part of their child's education.
I do think secular school would help massively with bullying with happens here between non-denominational and

Why not have schools where religion isn't taught at all though? So many people on this thread seem to think it's all make believe, so why would you want your child being taught that? *

Where do I start?

Firstly "The government obviously find it important within education."

Just fills me with despair. Do you even give these things any thought?

Why not have schools where religion isn't taught at all though? So many people on this thread seem to think it's all make believe, so why would you want your child being taught that?

Sorry, I missed this. I want my children to be tolerant, kind and informed. I want them to know about other people and other cultures, their motivations and their values, and that includes their religions.

I want them to learn about the religions and beliefs of others, in a neutral, secular way that doesn’t advantage one set of beliefs or present others to be wrong. Because I care about fairness.

I understand the desire of people to send their children to schools that match their faith. But in practice we only care about those who are Catholic or Anglican, don’t we? If you’re another Christian sect, or another religion, you don’t get that. So we’re discriminating already. And even for those faiths, provision doesn’t match demand.

We could do what many other countries do. If faith school matters to you, you pay for it, or your church pays for it. Potentially with reduced per pupil state funding, as in Australia. But outside the state sector, state provision and state admissions.

JassyRadlett a great post.

Some really important points. And makes me think a little deeper about why I feel uncomfortable about RE even being taught as a separate subject at primary level, because I doubt whether it can even be taught in a "in a neutral, secular way " and actually elevates the importance of religion generally.

What have I not thought about?
I find religion important within education for similar reasons Jassy has expressed.
I get that the church will push for religion in denominational schools, but the government must find it important to have put it into the whole curriculum and every school.

removing them from important moments in the life of the school - what important moments though, they've been removed from moments which the parents don't want them to partake in?

promotion of Christianity means that opt outs don’t work
I agree that promotion of Christianity shouldn't be happening in non-denominational school. If the school is following the correct curriculum and guidelines, opt outs shouldn't be needed.

Considering how few people in Britain (especially young adults) are actively religious I don't think religious education in schools is working. Perhaps it would be better to leave RE to places of worship.

I agree that it isn't an equal playing field if some children get less of a chance because of their parent's faith. It is discrimination.

Namechanger

Do you genuinely not understand the distinction between teaching children about religion and taking the opportunity to, basically, evangalize?

Any fully rounded education has to include information about culture, and the religions people subscribe to plays a role in that. It would, for example, be close to impossible to understand British history and literature without understanding what Christianity is all about.

Education should be about laying information in front of children and encouraging them to think.

How are they supposed to have the freedom of mind to decide what THEY believe when the sumliminal message they are getting is that CofE/RC/Islam/Judaism is the "real" deal which is why the school itself is named for it and the local Vicar/Priest/Imam/Rabbi is a regular visitor?

People who want education for their children which is biased in favour of their own particular brand of mythology clearly have no respect whatsoever for their children's independence of mind. And, frankly, what is that if not brainwashing?

namechanger " but the government must find it important to have put it into the whole curriculum and every school.*

You think it is the influence of the government?

TabbyMack

Of course I do.
It's just people have some pritty strong views against religion, I did wonder if it's a thing people would want.

speakout
Did you read what I wrote before that?
I think the government will find it as important for similar reasons people here do, which is why it is in the curriculum.

my children go to CofE school and I have absolutely no problem with their assemblies and religious studies. However I know some parents that object to these parts of school life. I am not a practicing CofE christian and I do feel that if a parent doest want their child to be taught about christianity and God then they shouldn't enrol their child at a CofE school. IMHO. It annoys me actually that parents go to the local church for a few months before the LA accepts applications so they can say their child attends church (and thus get a higher place on the enrolment list) and then complains that they are being taught about God and Jesus.

Oh, for fuck's sake. I can't stand this ignorant, "Oh well, if you don't like Christianity, don't enrol your child at a Christian school". It's so shortsighted and smug.

We are talking about state funded education.
State.
Funded
Education.

It should be available to everybody REGARDLESS of their faith or lack of it. When choosing a STATE FUNDED SCHOOL, the least important consideration ought to be the personal beliefs of the people running it.

Jeez.

Namechanger

You are responding to our points by ignoring the questions you are being asked. Why is that?

namechange

Did you read what I wrote before that?
I think the government will find it as important for similar reasons people here do, which is why it is in the curriculum.

Yes I did read. I am asking you to think a little deeper. Why do the governnment think that I wonder?

You are responding to our points by ignoring the questions you are being asked. Why is that?

I think I have answered quite a lot of questions today. I don't need to, and quite frankly haven't got the time to answer them all. Some I viewed as you making a statement rather than asking a question.

How are they supposed to have the freedom of mind to decide what THEY believe when the sumliminal message they are getting is that CofE/RC/Islam/Judaism is the "real" deal which is why the school itself is named for it and the local Vicar/Priest/Imam/Rabbi is a regular visitor?

They get taught the same religious education as non-denominational schools, so have the same opportunities to explore other religions. As well as learning and growing with or against their own faith.

People who want education for their children which is biased in favour of their own particular brand of mythology clearly have no respect whatsoever for their children's independence of mind. And, frankly, what is that if not brainwashing?

Again just because people have a faith doesn't mean they are going to brainwash their children. I encourage my child to explore religions, making up her own mind about her own beliefs.

DropItLikeASquat but there are no state secular state schools in the UK.
The best we can have are " non denominational" schools, which still have religious observance, often indoctrination, and a legal obligation for " religious observance"

Yes I did read. I am asking you to think a little deeper. Why do the governnment think that I wonder?

Like I just said, for similar reasons people have mentioned already.

If parents chose for their child to be opted out here, the school must make suitable arrangements for the child to participate in a worthwhile alternative activity. In no circumstances should a pupil be disadvantaged as a result of withdrawing.

why should this be the case? Some of us have no interest in our children participating in Christian events. That's what churches are for. why bring them to a place where students have to be?

*I encourage my child to explore religions, making up her mind about her own beliefs
*
And yet you actively want her to go to a school which subscribes in various ways (other than the academic curriculum) to your own personal beliefs? If you genuinely meant what you've said, it wouldn't matter to you if the school was secular.

Speakout: I get that about non denominational schools and I agree there shouldn't be an emphasis on religion at these sorts of school.
Tabbymack: I am neither ignorant nor smug, I was talking about my particular school which is a VA school (whatever that means) and does receive funding from the local CofE parish. I stand by my opinion that if you are someone that does not agree with the christian ethos being a fundamental part of a Childs education then this is something that should be taken into consideration BEFORE enrolling your child at that school. Not to 'pretend' to be a practicing christian, to bump up the enrolment list and then complain that your children are being indoctrinated. This is exactly what happens at my kids school, I got a place for my child as its in my catchment, but there are 2 other schools that are in this catchment that are non denominational they I could have chosen instead if the christian faith was something I wanted my children to avoid like the plague.

And yet you actively want her to go to a school which subscribes in various ways (other than the academic curriculum) to your own personal beliefs? If you genuinely meant what you've said, it wouldn't matter to you if the school was secular.

If she went to a secular school it won't bother me tbh, she'll turn out to be who she is. Like if she came home tomorrow hating her school and asking to move, I wouldn't question it even though it wouldn't be a faith school.

why should this be the case? Some of us have no interest in our children participating in Christian events. That's what churches are for. why bring them to a place where students have to be?

Because here it would mean you have opted in to a school with a religious ethos. It doesn't make it right, nor do I agree with it.