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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To really hate it when atheists take the piss out of those who believe in God?

845 replies

sharkirasharkira · 05/02/2018 14:10

I have several FB friends who are obvious atheists, and often share things about science and/or about the concept of God being stupid -basically saying that anyone who believes in God is an idiot, a child (with an 'imaginary friend') or someone who has no idea about science and the universe.

I get that not everyone has faith in a higher being/religion etc but why the childish name calling and the necessity to take the piss out of those who do? It just really irritates me! Belief in God and an appriciation of science are not mutually exclusive. I find it quite offensive that people who don't know my personal beliefs are essentially saying that if I believe in God I must be an idiot or a child who believes in magical sky fairies, because theres no possible way I can believe in evolution (for example) and be an agnostic.

Aibu to think that people should just let others believe what they want to believe without mocking them for it, even if they don't agree with it?

OP posts:
PatriarchyPersonified · 08/02/2018 20:16

Birdseye2010

Something came from nothing at a certain time

Not really, no. Nobody knows for sure obviously but none of the actual theories start with 'there was nothing and it exploded', which is what some religious types like to straw-man it as.

hartha · 08/02/2018 20:26

Aibu to think that people should just let others believe what they want to believe without mocking them for it, even if they don't agree with it?*

In principle, yes. However, when I'm grabbed in the street or have leaflets shoved under my nose, someone knock on my door or walk past someone preaching with a microphone, those people are not letting me believe what I want to believe and are actively trying to change it. It irritates me. I'm not stupid, I can read up on religion, or call into a church, watch a documentary, ask someone religious. I don't need it shoved down my throat, thanks. So yes, I'm guilty of, on occasion, mocking them.

I also hate the way that some people (ex I'm talking about you and your family) try to fit evolution/the Big Bang theory into Genesis, claiming things like "it's all an analogy", and yet will not accept that dinosaurs are real but a huge hoax. You can't have it all ways. Either you don't believe in scientific fact, or you do and you don't believe in God. You can't pick and choose what will fit and what won't? That doesn't make any sense.

ScruffbagsRUs · 08/02/2018 20:33
speakout · 08/02/2018 20:41

Atheists don't have a doctrine.

Asking atheists what they "believe" is silly.

There are no unifying ideas.
Some atheists may accept the big bang and evolution, others may think aliens brought us to Earth, some may think a giraffe laid a giant egg and we all hatched.

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/02/2018 08:03

Think about all the other religions you don't believe in, then ask yourself the reasons why you don't believe in them.

Then apply those reasons to your own religion.

Problem solved

The world would be a much simpler and happier place if everyone did this.

echt · 09/02/2018 08:23

PatriarchyPersonified that's a really interesting thought experiment. Smile

Carouselfish · 09/02/2018 08:41

I agree in part with you OP. Talking as if you know a fact when, actually, nobody, including the atheists really know anything is very annoying.
Religion and beliefs should be kept at home, privately. They should have no place in state systems at all. It's when they're allowed out in public, when they affect those who disagree that there's a problem.

namechangerbob · 09/02/2018 11:54

*Think about all the other religions you don't believe in, then ask yourself the reasons why you don't believe in them.

Then apply those reasons to your own religion.*

I don't have any reasons for not believing other religions though. I understand why people believe in different things, I enjoy hearing their views and opinions. I think you've always got to have an open mind, I think it's normal to have your faith tested, and go through spells of uncertainty. We are all human, we all have second thoughts. People seem to think this makes someone less religious, but it doesn't, if anything I think it cements them more within their faith because they have thought about what is best, for them.

What I believe just feels right, for me. I don't expect anyone else to get the same comfort and warmth from my beliefs as I do, because they are mine. I think people take different things from religion, everyone's been through different life experiences and everyone's going to take a different path.

TabbyMack · 09/02/2018 11:59

I once told a Christian that I didn't believe in Yahweh for the same reasons that they didn't believe in Zeus.

All I got in return was, "Well, did Zeus write a book that has been revered for millennia and give his only begotten son to save humankind?" - which rather missed the point.

When you haven't used reason, logic or common sense to arrive at a conclusion, then none of those things work as effective counter tools.

There's a brilliant YT video called "Christianity made me sound like an idiot" by a former evangelical turned atheist. Very funny.....and true.

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/02/2018 12:01

Namechangerbob

I don't have any reasons for not believing other religions

I think you are being deliberately obtuse here.

You obviously do because the vast majority of religions in the world are completely incompatible with each other on doctrinal grounds. (I don't mean they can't physically live together, some manage that fine)

Therefore as a person of faith you have plenty of reasons to not believe in 99% of all religions by default.

Now think about the reasons you don't believe we were all created in the Dream-time for example, or moulded from clay, or shaped from a lock of a certain God's hair. Take the reasons you don't accept those religions and then apply them to your own.

It's easy really.

TabbyMack · 09/02/2018 12:05

I understand why people believe different things

But surely it matters to you whether what you believe is factually true or not?

The fact that every believer has their own special set of beliefs is a pretty massive clue that it's all made up.

HandbagKrabby · 09/02/2018 12:37

If everyone believes their own thing why do we have religion anyway? The religion is an agreed story and rules is it not? If you’re picking and choosing you’re not really following the religion at all. How do you know the bits you pick to believe in are the right ones? How do you know that your God is not incensed that you think you know better than they do with regards to what they have said in their books when you wilfully disregard some of their teachings? I suppose this is why we have fundamentalists because they see this and have to follow the religious stuff wholesale otherwise the fear is that the curtain falls down.

VanGoghsLeftEar · 09/02/2018 12:46

I have mocked religious people online by sharing cartoons and memes about the subject. But religious people throw it back. Fair enough, I say.

I find religion ludicrous. Fairy stories. A good yarn, maybe like reading Dr Strange comics, or Cecelia Ahern, or Outlander. But that's all they are. If anything, they are an allegory for real life, the omnipressant force directing our lives, forcing limitations and restricting freedoms,, like any capitalist society. Therefore, what I know to be true, proven over and over, and is physically known, is what I go with.

If a person wants to believe in religion, then fine, but I will continue to point out how silly it is. As I expect any religious person to pull my argument apart. It's an ongoing debate.

namechangerbob · 09/02/2018 12:47

I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I genuinely don't have reasons. I just don't believe in the religion which they do. I've read and looked into them, but they weren't for me but for no particular reason. My religion stood out to me, it brought me comfort and it just felt right, for me.

But surely it matters to you whether what you believe is factually true or not?

But it's doesn't. My beliefs are personal, and I don't feel the need for justification, and never had.

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/02/2018 13:10

Namechangerbob

So you don't believe in their religions, but you can't give any reasons whatsoever as to why? 🤨

Right....

JassyRadlett · 09/02/2018 13:31

What I believe just feels right, for me. I don't expect anyone else to get the same comfort and warmth from my beliefs as I do, because they are mine.

Ok. Do you think those beliefs entitle you to special treatment?

namechangerbob · 09/02/2018 14:13

So you don't believe in their religions, but you can't give any reasons whatsoever as to why?

I can't. I respect their religions, I don't disagree with them even though it's not my chosen religion. I like some aspects of different religions. I don't feel the need to belittle or prove other religions wrong to justify mine.

Ok. Do you think those beliefs entitle you to special treatment?

Nope, I don't think anyone is entitled to any special treatment. However, I think they are entitled to respect, if they show it themselves.

birdseye2010 · 09/02/2018 14:23

Not really, no. Nobody knows for sure obviously but none of the actual theories start with 'there was nothing and it exploded', which is what some religious types like to straw-man it as.

as I said, I am not a physicist. But Lawrence Krauss is and has a book called "A universe from nothing". But as I said, I have almost nothing invested in that.

Nope, I don't think anyone is entitled to any special treatment. However, I think they are entitled to respect, if they show it themselves.

so you support the humanist society in ridding this country of state faith schools? Just to be clear, many religious people do.

JassyRadlett · 09/02/2018 15:17

Nope, I don't think anyone is entitled to any special treatment. However, I think they are entitled to respect, if they show it themselves.

But there’s the thing. The privileges enjoyed by Christians, and endorsed by any members of the two main churches who aren’t willing to challenge it locally or nationally, are profoundly disrespectful to non-Christians.

It basically says: you deserve less from the state than I do, because I am a Christian.

It’s very difficult to overcome. I am happy to follow a model of mutual respect. But the fundamentals are so far from mutual, it’s hard to work constructively from there. Christianity and Christians simply aren’t leaving me be.

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/02/2018 15:59

Namechangerbob

I respect their religions, I don't disagree with them

Maybe I'm not being clear enough. Let's try a couple of examples.

The Aborigines of Australia think we were all created in the Dreamtime, a kind of religio-culturally described alternate state of reality.

What about the Greeks, who thought that Gaia the earth God brought forth Ouranos and together they created progeny of Titans and lesser God's which led to the creation of all mankind.

Do you agree with those? If the answer is no then by definition, you disagree.

If you disagree, then there is a reason. What is that reason?

It kind of feels like you don't want to answer the question because you know where this is going to lead.

namechangerbob · 09/02/2018 17:12

so you support the humanist society in ridding this country of state faith schools? Just to be clear, many religious people do.

By faith school do you mean all religious schools? We have non-denominational or denominational schools here, I think it's slightly different elsewhere though.

I would say it is equally important to have religious schools, teaching from a non-biased point of view on religion. As well as non-religious schools.

The privileges enjoyed by Christians

Out of interest, what privileges are you referring too?

If you disagree, then there is a reason. What is that reason? It kind of feels like you don't want to answer the question because you know where this is going to lead.

They just didn't feel right for me.
I honestly can't tell you any other reason, the same way I would struggle to give you reasons why I follow the one I do.
But I know how it feels to have my faith, which I didn't find in other religions.
For me religion isn't about taking the bible word for word, nor is it about what's right or wrong. People may say this isn't being truly religious, and perhaps it's not, I haven't claimed to be. There are things within my own religion which I actively stand up against, as do many other people within my church. I think as an individual, I'm clear on my own opinion but do like to look at things from all aspects.

WildWindsBlowing · 09/02/2018 17:21

I think in this day and age, if you are going to have faith in something that doesn't exist, you have to expect to be mocked. Sorry

What "thing" exactly doesn't exist Valerrie? Why are you personally so sure you know about the "what" another person has faith in?

More than that, why should anyone expect to be mocked for this anymore than they might "expect to be mocked" for what clothes they wear?

Vitalogy · 09/02/2018 17:44

It kind of feels like you don't want to answer the question because you know where this is going to lead. That's how I feel about no one on the thread addressing the spirituality that Alan Watts describes in the videos I posted and I feel to be as is too.

JassyRadlett · 09/02/2018 17:45

By faith school do you mean all religious schools? We have non-denominational or denominational schools here, I think it's slightly different elsewhere though.

Faith schools are those schools that receive funding from the state to operate but are run through or by a church - most commonly RC (throughout the UK) or CofE (England). These schools are able to practise religious discrimination in their hiring and promotion of staff and in their admission of children if the school is oversubscribed. They are able to promote their faith and god through the school.

Out of interest, what privileges are you referring too?

I’ve mentioned many of them on this thread already. They include reserved seats in the legislature, state funding to promote their faith as true to schoolchildren, preferential access to a third of state schools in England, preferential employment status in up to a third of state schools in England, compulsory promotion of their faith through regular collective worship in both England and Scotland, dedicated funding for their clergy in hospitals.

It’s ironic in a thread where Christians profess offense and disrespect for their beliefs when someone equates their deity with something that is fictional cannot are how much greater disrespect is involved in saying they think their child is more entitled to a school place, or that their prayers should form part of the normal school day at all schools, or that they deserve extra votes and voices in Parliament.

Or that they have not had the inclination to listen when people on this thread have patiently and respectfully explained these issues.

I would say it is equally important to have religious schools, teaching from a non-biased point of view on religion. As well as non-religious schools.

This doesn’t make any sense.

All schools teach about religions in an equitable, non-biased way. Faith or religious schools are run by a particular faith, and promote their own religion as the ‘real’ one and their god as true.

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/02/2018 18:14

WildWindsBlowing

What "thing" exactly doesn't exist

God or Gods.

The general atheist position is that as there is zero evidence for any supernatural deitys, the default position is to assume their non-existence unless any confirming evidence can be found.

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