To drag DH back into family life after illness?

[lookingforthecorkscrew]

I've posted before about DH suffering from severe anxiety (exacerbated by recent financial difficulties). We had one hellish week of him being practically paralysed by anxiety and unable to function - eating and sleeping were a struggle. We sought help for this and the GP took him very seriously.

While all this was happening I was picking up the slack and looking after our 3yo DS, planning a house move (we move in less than 3 weeks) and being pregnant with HG. It was tiring as DS was ill, but my husband was genuinely unable to contribute so I just got on with everything.

Another week passed, he's now working again (he works from home) and his eating and sleeping have improved a bit, though he still wakes in the night. He's reading for pleasure again and enjoying little things like having a beer in the evening. He even went out for drinks with friends the other night.

This is now the third weekend since the worst point. But he still isn't participating in family life at all. Every morning he stays in bed until 10.30/11 and won't get up to help with DS. This morning I challenged him on it and he just turned over in bed. He still puts his needs before ours, talking about himself and how he's getting on. The other night I didn't sleep at all because DS was up with a bad chest, he said 'Oh I slept through all that, that's good isn't it?' - he is viewing everything through a very selfish filter.

And I need his help now. This move is getting closer. I need help with organising our house. I need help with entertaining our son so that we can organise the house. I have bad days with my HG where getting on normally is very difficult. Our baby will be here in June. And I'm just really really fucking tired of doing everything.

He has form for this, mental ill health aside. He's never been proactive with parenting DS, doesn't really initiate any meaningful 1-1 time with him. When they are alone together he gives DS the iPad and sits looking at his phone. Consequently DS looks to me to fulfil most of his needs - and struggles with being away from me. I want this to change.

But I just don't know how to approach this. DH has been ill, and I have great sympathy for that. But I also think he's being a bit of a CF...

Knock on the door and tell him it's time for him to get out and make lunch. A talk is needed when he is in a receptive mood. I think all you can do on a day to day basis is constantly involve him in tasks or delegate them to him.

Expat nails it.

You are wringing you hands and saying ‚‘but I love him‘

He has / had anxiety AND he is also taking the piss.

If you want things to change then you have to change your reaction to him opting out. Call it tough love if you like, but if you want things to change then you HAVE to get tough.

The other night I didn't sleep at all because DS was up with a bad chest, he said 'Oh I slept through all that, that's good isn't it?' for you. Sounds like a child talking to a parent, as if your lives revolve around the focal point of his being ill or well, as if there is one 'focal point' at all.

If his argument is that he needs to take it easy because he might have a relapse or stop making progress, then why doesn't that logic work for you, too - if you can't catch a break on top of having HG and being pregnant (!), what's going to happen to you? He needs to be approaching this as a team with you, proactively sorting a way of running the household which is fair on both of you, instead of letting day to day life unfold 'naturally' (which really means you running flat out to get things done). It may be that, after having taken a good look at things together, it will be fairer for him to do a little less than you are doing now (or more, or the same - and hopefully he will redress the balance once the baby is here), but he should sit down and make some effort to evaluate the situation, and he's got to do more than he's doing now!

If he can read a book written for adults to himself, he can read a bloody pop up book to his own baby, there's no question about that. He may not want to, but that's not the immediate issue (of course it is an issue, but a separate one). There's much more he could be doing.

He doesn't sleep well - that is tricky, but then there are many people who are sleep deprived and still have to push themselves to fulfil their obligations during the day. Why doesn't he feel the same imperative to participate in family life? He doesn't get to be covered in sympathy if he then has a massive lie in to make up for a bad night, while you're with DS 24/7. Sympathy comes when you do your duty despite it being uncomfortable or difficult, no?
As an aside, my dad, a WOHP, did all the feeds and getting up at night when I was a newborn so that my mum, a SAHP, could recuperate ready for the day ahead with a new baby. And then went and did a full day at work, without feeling hard-done by.

Am saying this within the context of my having experience with insomnia, anxiety and chronic depression in the past. Yes, anxiety is a struggle precisely because you have to engage with real life at the same time, it's not like everyone else gets to pause their lives while they concentrate on sorting out their issues. I get that you are sympathetic to his illness and I don't want to minimise it, but he needs to get some perspective here.

I think you need to stop letting him get away with this, sorry, OP. Let him look after the ds, it won’t kill little one to have the iPad for a while, but see if you can get some time for yourself. What happens if you go in the bath for an hour (and lock the door so he can’t send the ds up)?

He's just gone to the shop for groceries, I just don't feel up to it myself today. I feel sick and exhausted and like I'm being a crap parent to DS.

I have complex PTSD, severe anxiety and depression. I also have two dc, 19 and 12. The 12 year old has ASD. My dp also has PTSD and both of us struggle with motivation.

However, dp gets up and goes to work five days a week and I get up and get DD up and out the door for school. I deal with the house stuff and the shopping and cooking meals and doing washing.

If we both acted like your DH then our lives would grind to a halt and nothing would ever get done.

While I am sympathetic to your DH, he needs a kick up the arse. He needs to start managing his symptoms and recognising when things are tough.

One thing I found very helpful was sitting in the evening and making a short list of achievable task for the next day.

So I would put things like, food shopping, hovering, two loads of washing, strip beds, cook dinner. Easily achieved and at the end of the day I feel like I have done something even though it's just general every day stuff.

Your DH could put pack 4 boxes, spend 1 hour with DS and give him his bath for a start. It's all about making things manageable and achievable so you don't feel really disheartened the next day.

He needs to step up and help. The more he manages, the better he will feel.

sorry but he sounds like a selfish twat who has (and still is) been using his depression as an excuse to shirk responsibility. You have supported him through the bottom of his illness, now he is recovering (even if not completely) he needs to prioritise helping out over doing things for himself. If he can go out for a beer he can help out, even if he doesn't feel up to looking after an active toddler, he could do some jobs round the house such as cooking or tidying up just to lessen your workload. Even without you being pregnant, he should still be doing this.

I'm going to ask for admin to take this thread down, I'm too tired and sick to be shouted at in capital letters by people with v little empathy.

Can you hire in help?

While it’s true life has its peaks and troughs, I’d say you’d significantly increase your chances of hitting a trough if you have a second child with a man who didn’t engage with the first one.

So - you are where you are - you say ‘adore’ this man despite everything. Ok.

In that case you need to accept him exactly as he is and that he’s not likely to change. He may conquer anxiety or he may not. Either way he will likely never pull his weight. Face the fact that you will be responsible for all the childcare and the house move. Look into getting paid help to support you. If he pitches in it’s a bonus, if he doesn’t that’s just how he is.

Do not do this Tell him he has 3 weeks to sort himself out or you’re moving without him

All that will do is cause a relapse. Given that she doesn’t want to leave him, and that mental health isn’t something you can “snap out of” that is probably the worst advice I’ve seen on here for a while.

I think for the moment you will need to assign him jobs I’m afraid.

One of the CBT people I saw ( from nhs IAPT) suggested a weekly plan as one way out of depression. You could print out 3 weeks worth and write a list of jobs you need done and ask him to schedule which jobs he will do on which days.

I’d suggest one “moving house” job a day and one “routine” job a day (the same one all week).

Also put a lateish but fixed getting up time and one “pleasure” per day.

So it might be eg Monday get up at 10. 11-12 sort books to keep and books to charity shop. 1- 2 he looks after and plays with child while you sort stuff, 2-6 work time 8 go out with friend.

By week 2 and 3 he might be increasing the time spend on jobs or fitting in another job.

Good luck.

It's odd you say he has anxiety as the stuff you mention seems more in line with depression. They're very different things.

Sorry to say but you seem to be at a stage of enabling him now, it's a natural understandable pattern to fall into when you love someone but at a certain point it becomes about the person getting stuck in the 'sick role' and making no progress towards recovery.

I say this as someone with recurrent severe depression, it helps to have a few days at its worst to basically hibernate in bed and try get my head together. But after that it helps me MORE to carry on and pull my weight. It improves my relationship which is one less stressor then to worry about. Gives me a sense of achievement for participating, reduces the guilt. And gives me less time to spend in my own head ruminating and getting more upset.

I think an honest harsh talk is needed now about what you need from him. Is he having therapy? As if he is it doesn't seem to be working. If not you can access it from your local IAPT team.

What sort of anxiety has he been diagnosed with? GAD? His behaviours don't seem congruent with anxiety at all.

PS: you've had some good input on this thread. Make sure you take screenshots before it's taken down.

I don't think it should be taken down. There is good advice here for the OP (when she's able to read it) and others in comparable situations. The shouters can be ignored.

I have a friend in similar ( actually much worse situation as her dh has 4 other kids too) and it is hard knowing what is genuine mh issue and what is our taking the piss

Is he on medication?
Does he want to get better?

(Definitely don't have any more kids

Anxiety and depression and other MH conditions do often make the sufferer very selfish and self absorbed. I say that as a life long sufferer.

But if he was a crappy parent/partner before mental illness, he’s going to be a crappy one during and after mental illness as well quite frankly. So while I’m sympathetic for his illness, your issues with him aren’t as a result of that.

OP, what did you want from this thread?

People are making very valid points (and while the 'why have another baby with him?' posts are not exactly helpful in the sense that they don't provide any advice you can follow, they do have a point) and you don't like it and want the thread taken down. If you just wanted to vent but not do anything about it, it would have been helpful to us to say that in your OP.

I think he's being awful too, actually. I do have sympathy, but it's fairly limited, tbh, as most people (particularly most women) just have to get on with it through really quite severe depression and anxiety. (And I have been there, to a degree). It sounds from what a PP says about your wider situation that things always seem to revolve around him - perhaps because he is so 'brilliant'? - and tbh I think this episode coinciding with your HG is more than coincidence. He now has the perfect excuse not to step up at a time when you really need it. HG is utterly grim - why does his health trump yours (and the baby's)? What if you needed rehydrating in hospital?

He needs to be told, gently but firmly, that you have supported him when you are on your knees yourself and now he's better - well enough to go out with friends - it's his turn to look after you a bit so you can recover before your move. His going shopping is a good start, I suppose. But he doesn't need a pat on the back, a medal and the afternoon in bed after that. He needs to make lunch and take your ds out.

I don't think you want to hear any of this, though.

This thread shows how many people are uneducated or unsympathetic about how Mental Health affects the person and those who live with or care for them.

He's never been proactive with parenting DS, doesn't really initiate any meaningful 1-1 time with him. When they are alone together he gives DS the iPad and sits looking at his phone. Consequently DS looks to me to fulfil most of his needs - and struggles with being away from me. I want this to change.

He adores me and DS. He would be broken by us leaving.

What you describe doesn’t really sound like he adores DS tbh.

I really feel for you HG is awful even with a supportive partner who does everything. Having 2 young DC with a DH like you describe us going to be really hard too.

Only you can decide what you are willing to put up with though.

It doesn’t sound like he has much respect for you and I really feel for your DS having a dad who doesn’t WANT to spend time with him, kids pick up on this far more than you realise and it can have a massive negative impact on their childhood.

Seriously, have a good think about whether you want this for your children.

Hes well enought to go out with his friends boozing though isnt he?
I'd be saying step up or thats it.
Hes a lazy bastard OP.

In what way quietheart?

It's fine to acknowledge that having a MH issue can make you selfish and self absorbed and be a drain on others around you. It's also fine to acknowledge that having a MH issue doesn't always make you that way, and some people are selfish and a drain with or without a MH problem.

I say that as someone with a MH problem. I'm under no illusions it makes my partner's life worse at times and more difficult and drags him down. so it's my responsibility to do everything I can to manage it so it affects others as little as possible. That's just being a decent human being.

OP, I can sympathise.

My wonderful, caring, selfless, funny husband had a major depressive breakdown in late 2016, culminating in over two months of in-patient care in a psychiatric hospital. It was the hardest thing we’ve ever gone through.

For me, the worst thing was the selfishness. He’s not naturally a selfish person at all, but when he was sick, he could not even think about anything outside of his own head. I think it was just so hard for him to even put one foot in front of the other each morning, all he could do was think about his own actions, sleep patterns, whether he had eaten or not. It was agonising, and I did lash out at his behavior a few times.

That said, his hospitalisation made me see it a bit differently. In treatment, practically every single decision was taken away from him. He was on a set schedule of waking, breakfast, therapy, lunch, therapy, dinner, expertise, supper, bed. His biggest decision was whether to have chicken or cheese salad at lunch.
This is a man who works in a very senior, stressful job. It was a big change, but he was relieved.

His key worker spoke to me and asked me to keep “real life” stuff away from him initially, and then had he start to introduce things as the weeks went on.

When he came home, it was tough. He was used to thinking about nothing but himself so there were a terse few weeks of readjustment. It was awful.

He’s been out of hospital for almost a year now, and is still in therapy. He’s a different man. He’ll always have anxiety but he knows how to cope with it now. He’s gotten a good balance with anti-depressants, therapy, and lifestyle changes.

I really did struggle. I felt very angry that he got to check-out or life, while I was left to pick up the pieces. I had no family support, but work were very good and understanding.

Anyway, didn’t mean to write so much. I guess it’s easy for people to say “LTB, he’s selfish” (and that’s an option!) but it sounds like you’re determined to make this work and, unfortunately, his behaviour is a symptom and it sounds like he needs treatment above what he’s already sought out.

I think he is struggling to cope with the realities of having a family, especially young children. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have clinical depression - from what you say, he does- but I would think the crux of it is that the reality of parenthood is too much for him and that’s probably what’s triggered it off. That would also explain why he can seemingly compartmentalise going out for a beer with a mate (ie taking some enjoyment in life however small) and not putting in any effort at home with ds.

It’s up to you really if this is something you can live with. Unless he’s prepared to see it for what it is and really engage with family life I can’t see it getting any better.

For what it’s worth my dh has severe depression and didn’t work for 2 years because of it. He now takes high dose antidepressants and they have really helped him and he has now been in the same job for nearly 3 years. However my dhs depression was mostly related to work and anxiety about social situations etc - he was always engaged with family life and at home with ds, so you need to find out what is really behind your dhs problems and go from there.

LemonShark in that case surely you would agree with me that many posts in this thread demonstrate a lack of insight?