Is this punishment twice over?

[Notss]

Hi all,

Another school related disagreement between me and DH.

Basically school have a disco on the last day before half term that DS2 would like to go to. But the entry requirements are that children should have received any “red cards” for behaviour.

DS2 has received a couple red cards since Christmas (And was grounded for each) and therefore can’t go, I’m fully on board with this but DH thinks it’s wrong and is punshining twice for the same offence?

Who is BU?

Thanks!

It will also be a way of keeping children with challenging behaviour away from the disco. School discos are hell anyway, without children kicking off.

I think there's an argument for missing the disco. Perhaps he'll learn that poor behaviour in a classroom has an impact beyond the day of the event. We don't know what happened but perhaps dealing with the child's behaviour meant the rest of the class missed out on important teacher time-so a long term impact for the class's learning.

Anything illegal or wrong I do as an adult such as dangerous driving, for example, wouldn't just be over and done with in a day but would go on for years. I think children need to start learning this from a young age. A fresh start is great but only after an acceptance of wrong doing and a genuine apology.

I was a well behaved child at school, but would have loved nothing more than missing break or lunch play because I was always so cold.

Also it’s silly because once a kid has a re card, they’ll think what’s the point.

Presumably if they have a red card and keep being naughty, they get another punishment/sanction per incidence of naughtiness?

I don’t see the problem. Keep misbehaving? Keep getting in trouble. 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's ridiculous to let kids hold you to ransom with 'what is the point of being good

^it isn’t about being held to ransom. It’s about teaching children to behave for the right seasons - not just for reward. Otherwise you only teach children to do the right thing if they get something back.

Otherwise you end up in a negative punitive cycle.

It's a tough life lesson for your son. If he can't do the time - don't do the crime. DH is BU.

I think it’s mean. They received in school punishment at the time. Why is there no way no earn back the treat through extra tasks or acts of kindness.

Why does a child who did something wrong week ago get badges as a ‘bad kid’? It’s not good for self esteem.

We don’t do this to adults. Once you’ve served your time the punishment is over.

It's a disco, not a curriculum related trip or class performance. The school should be able to exclude proven troublemakers.

The OP is not clear: has he already been punished at school or only at home (grounded)?

Reasonable punishment is another part

If they’ve been punished already via the red cards then why do it again with the disco? Indicates to me that the system doesn’t work and needs to be more appropriate. As I said earlier, it isnt about being held to ransom or a power battle. It’s over the top.

Plus teachers make mistakes.

But why does your DH think there have been two punishments for the same crime? There hasn’t. The red cards aren’t a punishment. They’re meaningless without an actual consequence. I agree, if the DSs were ever told off and punished at school, I wouldn’t ever punishment at home. But this? This is THE punishment. Hopefully a lesson learned for your DS but a shame for him.

Discos are normally run mainly by parent volunteers, so from a safety point of view they really need the kids to be ones who have demonstrated that term that they can behave appropriately

I didn't know what the red card system involved, but looking at it on this school website, it seems to be for sustained bad behaviour or for a one off incident of violence. So not really suitable for parent volunteers to cope with
www.kingsmead.hackney.sch.uk/page/?pid=50

It's a stupid system. They should have a means of redeeming yourself.

With two red cards to his name, the grounding approach may need some tweaking too. It's not working.

Well the school haven’t punished him twice.

You chose to ground him and the school choose to exclude him from the disco. They are going to consult every set of parents to decide the punishment of their child’s red card. They have a system which invokes missing the disco. You grounding him was over and above.

Is the red card specifically related to the disco? Is it only given for behaviour that would ruin the disco if it happened there -
like violent behaviour / being very disruptive or unpleasant to others? If that is the case I think it's fair enough even if there is also a detention or other punishment at the time.

Easy to see why we have a discipline problem in school. The school has made a decision based on their behaviour policy and full possession of the facts for which the child received two red cards- facts which no poster here has. Perhaps if parents respected the authority of the school we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.
OP you are in the right and good for you for supporting the School from day one. Your DH isn't helping. You will be doing your child a favour by reinforcing the message that bad behaviour has consequences. Parents really need to focus on the bad behaviour not questioning the punishment in any given scenario. The school will have their reasons for this decision and as parents we really do need to trust our schools more. If you don't trust your child's school then you should send them elsewhere.

Grounding suggests an older child, so perfectly able to understand that if you do something wrong, there are consequences.
Red card suggests that either they'd done something smallish repeatedly and been warned (yellow cards, like football), in which case he had plenty of chances to wipe the slate clean and still be able to attend the disco, or done something fairly major. There isn't enough detail in the OP to tell though. Nor is there any info on what the school did at the time, so there's no point saying he's already been punished if he missed break because we have no idea if that happened.

The other side of the coin is that it can be de motivating for the kids who already routinely behave to see someone who doesn't getting all the same treats. My school when I was a kid used to hand out certificates each week to the kids who behaved. I behaved as standard, and rarely got one as I sort of slipped under the radar. The kids who messed around most of the time but managed to hold it together for a few days would get one. Motivating for them, maybe. But for me looking at that, why behave most of the time if you can get even more praise by not behaving and then suddenly pulling it out of the bag for five days? (I was too scared of my mums reaction if I started to do this to actually do it, but you get the point!)
wiping the slate clean is fine to an extent, but surely if the misdemeanour is repeated and repeated, or is fairly epic, then allowing the kid in question to do everything the others do simply promotes an 'I can do what I like' approach. Especially if everyone knows from the get go that attendance at the disco is dependant on good behaviour.

Make sure you know the school policy so you can choose not to punish them next time.

I can see why this feels like 'punishing twice' but I doubt that's the schools intention. They're most likely just trying to ensure that behaviour at the disco is good so that the PTA will continue to do discos.

If it's anything like our school,the disco may be run entirely by parent volunteers who are not trained in behaviour management. The teachers are asked to stay, but there's no expectation. After all it is their Friday night, why should they give it up? At discos, even well-behaved children can get silly. If a child can't behave well in school, with all the usual staff and clear routines and consequences, how can they be trusted to behave well at the disco and not spoil it for others?

The school is punishing children that have continually misbehaved - fair enough.

You have also punished, so yes, he has been punished twice.

Don’t we need more details before deciding?

In our Primary dc can get red dojos for forgetting their homework book, so not necessarily behaviour related.

Is it a Primary school?

What behaviour warrants a red card?

Is this behaviour then dealt with and how?