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Original poster

To think it's a bit weird to expect a guy to make the first move and pay for dinner

169 replies

Skustew · 03/02/2018 08:54

If you post memes on bookface talking about treating both genders equally?

I understand some people are a bit old school and their idea of how men should treat a woman comes from the 50s. But why can't some people see the double standards they have?

OP posts:
TheBrilliantMistake · 03/02/2018 17:11

Not sure about that.
Women's oppression still exists, but not sure it's because people prefer it that way. You might be right though.
I certainly wouldn't want the world to become so bland that a woman can't flirt, or a man can't charm etc. Our differences are still part of the attraction to each other (at least I believe so).

Overall, I think we are conditioned from a very early age to behave in certain ways and to believe that society will judge us on how well we conform. It's the same in all cultures, but the 'rules' about the expected behaviours can be different from one culture to the next.

My son has a great job and he never objects to paying for his g/f who has a low pay job. Conversely, my daughter is well paid and she doesn't object to paying for her b/f. To me, that just seems a perfectly fine arrangement in both cases. The moment either of them feel their partner is 'sponging' off them, it's a different matter, but that's never happened with either of them.

g1itterati · 03/02/2018 17:23

Yes I agree actually with BrilliantMistake and no doubt David Attenborough could do a documentary on human dating rituals because essentially we do have them, like other animals. Dating isn't about being "bland" or "gender neutral". Bring PC is all very well, but it's not the most passionate thing, is it? Well, maybe it is for some people - no idea really?

PurpleDaisies · 03/02/2018 17:27

Dating isn't about being "bland" or "gender neutral". Bring PC is all very well, but it's not the most passionate thing, is it?

It’s a bit depressing if the only passionate thing about a date is them paying the bill or holding a door open for you.

I’ve had fantastic dates with great sparky conversation that I’ve really enjoyed, then we’ve just split the bill with no thought and gone on to whatever is next. Since when did paying your own way equal bland and boring?

MargaretCavendish · 03/02/2018 17:28

Bring PC is all very well, but it's not the most passionate thing, is it? Well, maybe it is for some people - no idea really?

What do you mean by 'being PC'? I find people who talk about 'PC' at all pretty unsexy, because I don't find low-level racism and misogyny to be a particular turn-on... To be honest I like my men thoughtful, considerate and clever, and that tends to go hand in hand with a more modern view on gender roles. I've never really got the 'turned on by neanderthals' thing that some people insist is universal in women.

Bluntness100 · 03/02/2018 17:34

Bring PC is all very well, but it's not the most passionate thing, is it?

I don't see being paid for as passionate or a turn on in any way shape nor form. I'm not for sale. My passion does not come with the price tag of dinner. Confused?

g1itterati · 03/02/2018 17:37

Of course sparky conversation is fairly crucial, but to be quite honest, I can get that with my next door neighbour - or all sorts of people for that matter. I prefer men who treat me differently than if I was just a good friend. I don't really like wishy-washy men, but that's just me.

Bluntness100 · 03/02/2018 17:38

Glitterati, I think we all get you like men to pay for you.

TheBrilliantMistake · 03/02/2018 17:42

I think there are some behaviours that are predominantly found in males, and others in females. There's a danger that in curbing the undesirable ones from each side, we also kill some of the more desirable differences between us.

Of course, which traits are desirable is a matter of opinion but something like 'assertive' can so easily be transposed by males in 'aggression'. They are certainly not the same, but males often confuse them.
In the same way, a woman's ability to express emotion well can often be confused with being overly dramatic.

I think it's great that we try to adjust behaviours from both genders for the greater good of our relationship, but we have to be careful we don't stop men from being men, and women from being women.

As for 'paying for a meal' - I just don't see that as an inherently male trait. I see it as a societal expectation that could probably do with disappearing.
I believe there are 100 other ways to be romantic, caring, empathetic and charming without opening a wallet. Likewise, a woman can be interesting, funny, beautiful and rewarding without having a penny to her name.

PurpleDaisies · 03/02/2018 17:49

I don't really like wishy-washy men, but that's just me.

You’re being quite insulting about men who respect women as equals. It’s a shame you think someone has to pay for you to demonstrate it’s more than a friendly dinner.

Bodicea · 03/02/2018 17:51

I kind of would expect it. But have been happy to go Dutch on subsequent dates or sometimes paid for the second. But the first I would been put off if they didn’t honestly, not in my student days when everyone is equally broke but yes in my twenties.

I think it’s partly tradition, partly about them being chivalrous, partly their way of showing they are into you.

At the end of the day we don’t have equality yet. There is a wage gap. It cost a lot more to be a woman. It cost a lost more to prepare for a date as a woman. Men expect us to be well groomed, waxed and the other shit we do. So if they pay for one meal it isn’t exactly a lot for them in the grand scheme of things.

TheBrilliantMistake · 03/02/2018 17:52

In my opinion, lots of wishy washy men will pay for dinner because they don't have the balls to question it, or at least engage in a debate about the rationale behind it.

They're the ones who will say 'oh I'm always a perfect gentleman and pay'.
I've always paid too, but I still think it's an outdated tradition. I was brought up to respect that tradition and I find it hard to break it. My children however have no problem tossing it away, and I'm glad about it for both my son and my daughter.

babyccinoo · 03/02/2018 17:53

I bet women who are left high and dry by CM- dodging DHs, or men who won't even propose to them or share finances etc - would probably, in retrospect, see that the signs were there at the outset - i.e. no effort, initiative, self-respect or manners.

Men paying for dinner doesn't automatically mean they will make effort or have initiative, self-respect, manners. These man can be quite often controlling. As birds said, abusive men will cover their abusive traits as best this can.

It's dangerously naive to tell women a man who pays is good husband material.

TheBrilliantMistake · 03/02/2018 17:54

It cost a lot more to be a woman
Bit of a generalisation that!

I'm fed up of women asking for large fries when I take them out and then refusing to give me the sticker from their McD's coffee cup.

AngelsSins · 03/02/2018 17:57

OP, in the name of equality, why are you only calling out women for having double standards? Men have them too you know? He can sleep around but a woman's a slut if she does, he can eat what he wants and get fat and gross, but will dump her if she puts on a stone, women shouldn't think all men are rapists waiting to attack them, but if she takes a man home and he rapes her, what did she expect?

So why aren't YOU being more equal?

TheBrilliantMistake · 03/02/2018 17:59

We all have double standards.
We can only keep trying to address them, one by one, generation by generation.

babyccinoo · 03/02/2018 18:00

Angels nothing is stopping you from starting your own thread about those issues.

It's ok to discuss one thing at a time you know.

Stillwishihadabs · 03/02/2018 18:06

This all seems so complicated ! Dinner as a first date ? I realise I am hopelessly outdated (met dh aged 22 in the naughty ninties) and a first date was almost universally drink/cinema/gig. Which leaves lots of opportunity for turn taking (he get the tickets, you get the popcorn) and is just so much less pressured. I honestly wouldn't agree to dinner before I done something lower key first.

MrsJoshDun · 03/02/2018 18:07

Have to say there’s a guy I like at the minute and I’m too scared to ask him out. I keep waiting for him to ask me which is silly.

A friend reckons he’s shy and I should ask him.

But I have a fear that I’ve misread the signs and he doesn’t like me. Even though he’s recently told me he thinks I’m lovely, that I look great and asked me directly if I’m single.

So it sounds like he likes me but I’m scared to get knocked back and look like a fool. But what if he has the same fear?

Maybe I should just ask him!

Stillwishihadabs · 03/02/2018 18:08

Oh and yeah I asked plenty of blokes out back in the day, I also asked dh to marry me😮

TheBrilliantMistake · 03/02/2018 18:10

Ask him.
There's a lot of media attention on the behaviour of men these days, and men can be wary of saying / doing the wrong thing.
If he says no, at least you know.

Life's too short for both of you to potentially waiting for the other and fearing rejection. You're either missing out on spending time with him, or missing out on finding a man who does want to date you.

MyBrilliantDisguise · 03/02/2018 18:14

I think @Stillwishihadabs is right. Going for dinner can be expensive - there are other things you can do which mean the couple can share the cost.

Original poster
Skustew · 03/02/2018 18:15

Yes you should just ask him as long as your ready to deal with the worst!

How is a mate buying you dinner the same as expecting someone to buy dinner just because they have a penis? My mate bought me dinner last week, she had a tax rebate and wanted to. Wasn't expected and was a nice gesture. Entirely different to expecting a man to pay! It's polar opposites!

If your idea of romance and a special night is someone else paying just because you have a vagina then I feel sorry for you.

If it's a first date its way too early to be thinking "I'll have the baby so I need to get my money's worth now". Once the baby comes then you make adjustments - not on the first couple of dates!

OP posts:
Stillwishihadabs · 03/02/2018 18:16

In some ways I think the ninties made for more equal relationships ( DMs, long hair, grunge) also we were (are)thatcher's children, so no problem with strong women. Dh have carried on much as we started , we cook 50:50 and always have, there is at least a nod to egality (as in we both think that's how it should be) even if we can't always manage it. We both had time out when the dcs were small and then worked pt. we both work FT now and contribute in proportion to our incomes.
We have no plans to divorce but if I found myself "back out there" I could never perform such a sexist script and I can't understand these women who were young in the same era as me who do.

skislope · 03/02/2018 18:16

I've never done online dating but surely if you are going on a lot of these dates it's going to end up being mega expensive for the bloke if he is always expected to pay? How is that fair?

AngelsSins · 03/02/2018 18:19

8babyccinno thanks for policing the thread but on the 100th post about this I think pointing out that it's hardly only women who have double standards s allowed. Personally I always split or took turns, but using women who don't as an arguement against equality whilst ignoring men's double standards is relevant and should be pointed out.

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