To think it's a bit weird to expect a guy to make the first move and pay for dinner

[Skustew]

If you post memes on bookface talking about treating both genders equally?

I understand some people are a bit old school and their idea of how men should treat a woman comes from the 50s. But why can't some people see the double standards they have?

Bluntness - the point is that I had the choice to not return to work because I could depend on my DH and vice versa. There is nothing wrong with that

The point is your initial phrasing, you stated he didn't expect you to work on top of having four children. This is very different to articulating your own elements of choice. It reads that he expected you to have four children and you felt lucky he didn't also expect you to work. You completely removed any element of your choice from the statement. Like your life was at his dictate.

The point is Dakota, you may choose to go out to work and that's fantastic. It's about choice though. If you are with a man who has no sense of financial responsibility towards his family, who insists on "his" money and "your" money, rather than a "it's all one and the same" attitude, women can be forced back to work out of necessity, not because they actually want to. This means that have less choice. It's totally different to women who want to work.

glitterati

Not necessarily though babycino. It's very circumstantial, you really can't generalise.

Sadly, you only have to read MN to see how often it happens.

I guess the important thing is to be honest about what you want out of life and find a partner who has the same mentality.

Or he may pay lip service to that egalitarian mentality until the ring is on her finger. Hence the advice of watch what a man does, not what he says. Or vice versa.

I don't think the issue is about going back to work or not, but more the attitude of the husbands at home. My point is that old-fashion men with old-fashion manners will be the ones who find it natural to share the work and take care of their family and not let their partner deal with everything at home. When someone is considerate, he is the same way everywhere and wouldn't think of treating their wife as a skivvy.

My point is that old-fashion men with old-fashion manners will be the ones who find it natural to share the work and take care of their family and not let their partner deal with everything at home.

It’s almost exactly the opposite. Old fashioned men expect women to do wifework and don’t pull their weight at home because it’s not part of their role.

I just don't agree with that Dakota. An old fashioned man will expect the woman to do the housework, and if she works OOH, will expect her to do both, or the majority of both.

The person inviting should either host or pay. Then turns ought to be taken treating the other if the dating carries on. Once a couple is fairly serious then of course you expect that it becomes more informal, as it does with close friends.

FFS can we go a single WEEK without a thread about this effing subject?!

Of course old fashioned men typically have old fashioned values of the wife does the women work of cleaning cooking and raising kids.

And it's not about a man expecting a woman to pay. It's about a woman wishing To pay. It's about our values as women, not men's. That's what rhe op is posting about. Women expecting men to pay for them as early as dating.

I still think a woman who uses first dates as a way to get free dinners always expects a man is in fact a bloody gold digger (yes yes sexist msgongy what ever i am sick of seeing if a man does not pay he = a cheapskate where as a woman never opening her purse = is fine and dandy no love its wrong and sexist)

A man not offer / paying more dates = cheapskate
A woman not paying her own way != cheapskate

The double standards are shocking.

@bluntness100

Of course it's personal preference. Wanting to be treated like the little woman who men pay for is indeed a personal preference

Wow, do you want to borrow my wheelbarrow to carry that king-sized chip on your shoulder?!

sorry for* why cannot mumsnet get a basic edit function is beyond me.

Men with high testosterone and leadership qualities tend to be generous.

www.mensfitness.com/life/entertainment/does-testosterone-fuel-aggression-or-drive-generosity-both-study-says

It makes sense that women would see generous behaviour as positive, in this context. Regardless of whether our society is egalitarian or not we are still animals who have unconscious motivations

petbear

If you're just going to be GF, then no one is going to engage with you.

Why post if you're so pissed off with someone posting this thread again?

It makes sense that women would see generous behaviour as positive

It's not really 'generous', though, is it? Generous would be the man offered to buy dinner for a homeless person, or someone in his life that really needed cheering up. Buying dinner for a date is a much more self-interested act, done with the conscious expectation of possible reward...

I love the whole man-walks-on-inside-of-pavement thing. Likewise opening car doors, standing up when I come into the room, giving me his coat if it’s raining and I am, as usual, unprepared. I would also expect a man to pay for dinner and the privilege of my splendiferous company. But I am old-fashioned, I think.

Of course old fashioned men typically have old fashioned values of the wife does the women work of cleaning cooking and raising kids.

not true at all, not around me, not in my experience. I am not pretending that people presenting a friendly face in public and being asshole in private do not exist, but they are the exception.
For the majority, looking after your family means being involved with it, not ignoring it and leaving everything to your wife.

I would be a lot more weary about men going dutch on the first day, spending weekends away with friends whilst their wife stays home with the newborn baby and all the stories you read about on this forum.

It's not about generosity, again this is about women's expectations. It's one thing to offer to pay and a man insists, and then you pay next time. It's a totally other thing to expect a man to pay and if he doesn't then say he's not a gentle man he's not generous etc.

As a poster said, if a man doesn't pay he's insulted by some women. Where as they see nothing wrong with them not paying, with their own lack of generosity.

If you have the money, it's pretty easy to pay for dinner and have a woman imagine you're such a lovely man for having been so generous and gentlemanly.
It's always going to be a LOT harder for a guy to overcome embarrassment and say 'it's difficult for me to afford it'. To me, THAT takes courage.

It can also be a little intimidating if one partner can spend lavishly and offers to pay for everything simply because they 'can'. It can leave the other feeling very inadequate because they can't.
I once heard a footballer talking about this situation with friends (other male friends). He could afford to pay for everybody, every single time. But if he did, he's showing off. If he doesn't he's horrible for making his mates pay!

Why do some women go on this mission to convince all other women that if we accept a man paying a meal for us or opening a car door we must be passive little women.
Im independent pay my own bills but still think it's nice if a man offers to pay on a first date or opens a door for me..
Why should I be made to feel bad for that?

I would be a lot more weary about men going dutch on the first day, spending weekends away with friends whilst their wife stays home with the newborn baby and all the stories you read about on this forum

What is your correlation between men paying on the first date and going away for weekend when they have a new born? That's some weird connection.

And women can go away too. I went away to Dubai for ten days with work when my daughter was six months old. I regularly went on business trips. My husband was more than capable of caring for her. In my view both men and women are able to do this if they chose. The whole women stay home with baby and men don't is what's wrong with your logic. It's dated in the fifties. You seem to think men who don't pay must be some sort of lad. Which is ridiculous.

And again, it's not about the men, it's about us as women and our values.

If a man can't even find it within himself to make an effort in the first date - what the hell will he be like 10 years into the future?

I bet women who are left high and dry by CM- dodging DHs, or men who won't even propose to them or share finances etc - would probably, in retrospect, see that the signs were there at the outset - i.e. no effort, initiative, self-respect or manners.

To be fair, I wouldn't have gone out with a man who couldn't afford to pay for diner at least once
The usual saying goes: I don't care paying for myself, but I do bloody care if they can't pay for themselves. Not much of a relationship if the other can't afford to do anything ever!

I still stand by what I said earlier, whoever invites pays!

I agree bluntness.

When I went on my first date with my bf (I asked him btw) he paid for dinner. I was completely ready to pay my share, but he offered - albeit because when the bill came he'd seen I was willing/ able to pay and not a freeloader.

I know a lot of men who said they'd been on dates where the women turned up with no means of payment. Literally nothing. One woman got quite shitty with a friend of mine when she found out he didn't have his car with him and couldn't give her a lift home as she didn't have her purse so no taxi money! She then expected him to sub her taxi fare.

I cannot imagine what would be said about a man who did that.

Bluntness100
The threads I am talking about are written by posters complaining that the father of their baby left them alone and they have to deal with everything.

Stop twisting everything I write please.

but this is ridiculous The whole women stay home with baby and men don't is what's wrong with your logic when you conveniently forget that the woman who just had a baby is the one who needs to stay home to recover from the birth... It's not living in the 50s to acknowledge that the one carrying a baby and popping it out so needing the rest and the maternity leave is the mother.
It's the reason why demanding equality makes no sense to me. We have equality in rights which is enough.