Alfie Evans

[IcySlippy]

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/alfie-evans-parents-plead-sons-14231597

Anyone following this?

I think the hospital authorities (and media actually) have been very measured and tactful about what they have (been allowed) let be known. FB punch-ups aside, it's only reading between the lines that one can guess at what's gone on.

I think it's today that Dad was filmed saying they will never "back down." Not "give up on him", but back down.

It's a desperately sad case but the medical evidence they can be sure of is fairly clear, there really is no hope of a good outcome (however you define that).

The Alfie's army morons are just ridiculous.

@CocoaGin what has been said about the dad's past?

@tidy speculating about the Dad’s past was partly what got previous threads deleted. This will go the same way which wouldn’t be fair as there is a debate here.

Don't go into all that about Dad. You could always google and find out. It would only lead to a thread deletion.

I did google thanks, and couldn't see anything. I've had a pm though (thanks to that poster, wont name them, they know who they are).

Doesn't change anything in terms of the case.

he's living on adrenalin through all this....when all is lost i feel he will need additional support as he's never going to come to terms with this and let Alfie go

its really worrying now,moreso with the past history i'm afraid

oh, and with the barmy army egging him on too

ECHR surely is now again just a delaying tactic, they’ve applied once and been turned down. There is nothing new in this appeal.

I think it’s all just delaying tactics, their legal team must know they can’t win, but they can drag it out.

I don’t know if the Christian Legal Centre have ever actually won a case but I think their MO is to draw as much publicity as possible towards their ‘persecuted Christian’ narrative.

When that’s B&B owners who want to discriminate against same sex couples then it’s just pathetic, but I think in this case they are being outright negligent in playing with the parents emotions when they must surely know how this is going to end.

I can absolutely understand Alfie's parents wanting to buy snake oil and believe every single extraordinary case that might mean the outcome for their son isn't the same. I can absolutely understand why they want to reject medical arguments that their son has little brain function left and should be allowed to die. That's a hell of a fact to accept.

I do hope that the hospital is now allowed to do what needs to happen in peace, though. This is already hard enough for everyone without painting the hospital as murderous villains, spurring on the parents and potentially making them feel that they cannot back down, and distressing other people in the hospital.

I don't understand the CLC's agenda here. Is it about right to life? Because even the Pope has cautioned against overzealous and futile treatment and that withdrawing care can be the correct thing to do. Or is it about parents having the ultimate control over their children? Which has pretty sinister implications.

I don't think any the "the army" have read the court transcripts, the parents have had numerous second opinions from other hospitals here and in Europe, including the hospital in Italy. They've all said pretty much the same thing and have praised Alder Hey.

This constant suggestion that Alder Hey won't transfer him because they're covering up is madness when you read about all the Doctors who have reviewed his case.

Did something happen today at the hospital? On the Alfie's Army Official FB page, TE has posted saying something along the lines of it being untrue he was arrested, and someone else posts about the police being on-site with tasers. Can't find anything in the news about that though.

Anyone know?

It’s such a sad, and complicated, case.

At the core is a child with an irreversible and non-survivable illness. I wholeheartedly agree with a previous poster (I’m sorry; I can’t remember your username) that it is so much easier to will a family member to live when they have never experienced independence, as it’s easy to view them as not having lost any abilities or freedoms. Comatose children with this degree of damage turn into comatose adults though, and I worry that Alfie’s parents are in such a present-orientated state of ‘survival mode’ that they cannot imagine a future either without their little boy, or where their little boy is no longer a baby and the degree of damage becomes increasingly marked.

I feel for his family, I really do. Whilst their choices aren’t the ones I imagine I would make (I made an advance decision at the age of 27 refusing life sustaining treatment if I permanently lost mental capacity), I realise I have no way of knowing unless I ever find myself in their situation. There can be no doubt that Alfie has a family who are absolutely besotted with him, and are true to their word of doing all they possibly can for him.

However. There is a failure for them (and, by extension, ‘Alfie’s Army’) to realise that this is not a case of a medical error. I’m a medic, and I appreciate that doctors are far from omnipotent. I myself have made well intentioned mis-diagnoses and mistakes - it happens. This is not a case of “my GP said it was X and then a consultant said it was actually Y”: the people making Alfie’s diagnosis, or rather prognosis, have access to the best technology and research available, have consulted several other experts in neurodegenerative conditions, and have carefully considered all possibilities. It’s understandable for the parents to try to escape their reality through whatever loophole or miracle they can imagine, but it’s downright cruel for the ‘Army’ to fuel them.

I also anticipate issues with Alder Hey physically removing the ET tube, and would expect there to be a security presence to prevent family from blocking staff.

It’s a tragic case for all involved, and no-one wins.

I think it was a rumour started by the army to stir things up, I saw a post asking people to rush to the hospital. I do think some are getting frustrated there hasn't been an attempt to "free" Alfie yet, after the Supreme Court ruling today I suspect some are waiting for the Father to do something dramatic.

Someone made a very good comment on the other thread about Dad having the lack of emotional maturity to deal with this and the ability to back down. It's really sad that the barmy army can't tell him he's fought a great fight, but the time now has come to sit quietly with his son and say goodbye. Just think of the good they could all do for him and the family. I think they all have a lot to answer for carrying this on now, when all hope has gone.

Surely if they try to take him by force it would be terrible for everyone. For this poor boy.

I keep reading he is "their property".

it is just so incredibly sad. He needs to pass with love not with anger and hate surrounding him.

I feel for the Mum and Alfie. This poor boy has no chance at life and the Mum seems to stay out of it all when it comes to the media. The Dad however is really pushing it weather it’s because of his past or what who knows but he really just needs to be spending time with his son.

Sweeticedtea I think that the Dad may feel so emboldened by the so called Army that he may feel encouraged and fired up enough to do something awful like try and take the baby. I cannot imagine how they must be feeling but he is clearly near the end of the road with this and may be feeling more and more desperate. It is a terrible terrible situation and absolutely no winners .

Wowlookatyou there were a few idiots calling for everyone to head to the hospital and storm the Unit, so Alfie could be taken out. Tom had already asked the protesters to stay away.

The Police attended the hospital to just reassure everyone. Then a rumour was started on FB that Tom had tried to take Alfie and he had been arrested.

The original Alfie's Army supporters, the family/friends of Tom and Kate, shoot down any calls to enter AH, or any negative comments against the hospital. They can't help the type of people who've latched on to this.

Horrific situation for all involved, but that poor baby needs to put first and all these delaying tactics by the father and that awful hate mob need to be shut down

The Army still seem to think The Pope has super powers. That he can over rule The Queen, the government and the legal system & basically whatever he says goes.

I wonder what Alfies mum's perspective is. She's almost never seen or quoted
Is she more of a realist about the situation

But hasn't tom already tried to take Alfie? Isn't that what happened a week or two ago, when he entered PICU with a supposed lawyer's stating his legal right to remove him (which subsequently turned out to be invalid) and a medic with portable ventilation kit?

It's an other very sad case of a child living because of all the medical advances...
It's sad, because we often feel that morally we should give everyone a chance to live...
It's sad because the parents need to know that they have done everything possible. Exploring all legal and medical avenues.
I wish that every one would work more closely together in cases like these. Every hospital has an ethical committee maybe giving desperate parents/ relatives a similar type of support where things can be discussed at length in the open instead of courts is an answer for the future. But for that to happen we need to regain a healthy relationship with the limits of medicine and death itself.