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Alfie Evans

999 replies

IcySlippy · 01/02/2018 11:50

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/alfie-evans-parents-plead-sons-14231597

Anyone following this?

OP posts:
cocoabutterformula · 20/04/2018 09:48

Do you seriously think that all the clinical staff at Alder Hey haven't thought through all the possible outcomes? The hospital in Italy aren't claiming that they can 'cure' him, no-one is. How would it be stopped in it's tracks and what would the different thing be? Do you think that a hospital in Italy knows more than Alder Hey?

Trumpdump · 20/04/2018 09:57

That Italian hospital should be ashamed of themselves for giving the parents false hope. Because of them, Alvie may die in a noisy cramped helicopter rather than peacefully in bed. Sad

MrsFassy · 20/04/2018 09:57

But that little boy in the article is like a PP said the reverse of Alfie. His brain was unable to grow because of the fluid, he started out with almost no brain but what he had wasn't damaged and once the fluid was drained, his brain had room to grow. With Alfie he started out with a 'normal' brain, then an awful disease took hold and his brain has been destroyed. The brain can't regenerate, so there is nothing that can be done for Alfie.

JediStoleMyBike · 20/04/2018 10:02

Has anyone confirmed that the poor little boy isn't in pain? I thought it was a case that they can't say for sure either way.

Mummybear11 · 20/04/2018 10:04

This makes me believe please watch
His brain was 98% fluid when born oarents picked his coffin look at him here!
m.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYodXW78wY

JediStoleMyBike · 20/04/2018 10:09

It's this blind ignorance to the medical expertise of Alder Hey that gets right up my nose. I can't imagine that the hospital have just left this child to suffer and deteriorate if there really was anything they could do.

From a purely and totally financial perspective even, the cost to keep Alfie in the state he's in - with the care, doctors and nurses attention, etc and with all the problems caused by the army - if there was a way to improve his condition surely they would?

The hospital that they want to take him to are only going to prolong his life. There is no cure being offered to him.

Nicknacky · 20/04/2018 10:11

Mummybear Why are you so convinces you know more than the experienced doctors and those they will have sought assistance from?

Because of a few YouTube videos?

cocoabutterformula · 20/04/2018 10:14

Mummybear who are you trying to kid? Do you really think some stuff in the Daily Mirror and on YouTube will be more medically advanced than the doctors at Alder Hey? I mean really?

stitchglitched · 20/04/2018 10:14

Mummybear have you read the judgement? Why do you think several medical experts including those chosen by the parents are wrong and you are right?

frasersmummy · 20/04/2018 10:18

Jedi. No one will know for sure if alfie is in pain but alderhey will be giving pain relief so he doesn't feel discomfort.

specialsubject · 20/04/2018 11:06

Noah Wall has a completely different condition for which there was some treatment. He does not have a degenerative brain condition.

utterly irrelevant. Alfie Evans is, very sadly, incurable and will never speak, move, breathe or eat. The Italian hospital isn't offering a cure, just different ventilation and feeding.

lilibet · 20/04/2018 11:17

Alder Hey cannot release the child without breaking the court order.

It's not up to Alder Hey anymore, why can't people see this?

Even if they wanted to, legally they cannot discharge this child.

No point petitioning, protesting, stamping and shouting. They cannot legally release him.

JediStoleMyBike · 20/04/2018 11:17

@frasersmummy - I thought it was something along those lines, bless him.

Bornlazy · 20/04/2018 14:29

frasersmummy I would imagine if they got Alfie to Italy, once he had a tracheotomy performed and was put onto domicillary ventilation they would try to bring him back to be looked after in his home. I have no idea if the funding for that would be available...

stitchglitched · 20/04/2018 14:31

The Supreme Court have rejected the application to appeal. I assume now the hospital will go back to court for a new date for withdrawal of treatment? I hope the parents can withdraw from the army and have some decent support around them.

miffytherabbit1974 · 20/04/2018 14:44

@Mummybear11

You say that "..Doctors have stated Alfie isn't in pain.."

Unfortunately this is simply factually incorrect. Statements from more than one doctor caring for Alfie included in those released by the Judiciary in February of this year conclude that there is no way of knowing in any meaningful way as to whether Alfie is experiencing pain or not. This is because, firstly, Alfie has no "higher" brain function which could activate conscious and involved pain responses, such as crying or guarding (meaning the usual communication and response behaviours seen in a healthy child of his age) and, secondly, even Alfie's reflexive (autonomous/automatic) pain responses are abnormal (meaning that both hyper and hypo reflexive responses have been noted due to his health problems).

In the round, this is one more example of ambiguity being utilised by "Alfie's Army" to sew misinformation. They have turned the expert's statement of "not knowing whether Alfie can feel pain" into the entirely disingenuous "Alfie is not in any pain".

Finally, as other posters here have very sensibly pointed out, the other child mentioned in the Mirror article had a totally different type of neurological problem. His brain matter is not being summarily destroyed and replaced by water and CSF, as in Alfie's case. Just because two children have one or two shared symptoms does not mean their illness is in any way the same or even vaguely alike. I have a blood clotting condition which I inherited from my mother. However, we are treated entirely differently and I have to take three medications whereas my mother takes nothing. So even when two people share an identical "problem" the treatment and outcomes are very often entirely dissimilar. Now imagine the chasm of difference between the boy you mention in the Mirror article and Alfie Evans, who share two totally different pathologies.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/04/2018 16:19

Link to Supreme Court's decision here: www.supremecourt.uk/news/permission-to-appeal-application-in-the-matter-of-alfie-evans.html

Apparently they're now going to appeal to the ECHR Hmm

RunMummyRun68 · 20/04/2018 17:27

they need to stop these appeals....the latest one says it can't be over turned, even by echr

Panda81 · 20/04/2018 18:28

Did the thread in site stuff get deleted too?

GnotherGnu · 20/04/2018 18:35

At the end of the Court of Appeal hearing there was discussion which couldn't be reported. I suspect that was about arrangements for carrying out the original court order; and I suspect that they may have considered contingencies such as the Supreme Court and the European Court again refusing to consider the appeals and built those in. Therefore it may not be necessary to go back to court again if the ECHR refuses the appeal.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/04/2018 18:53

Gnu the reporting on Sky suggests you're right, and that carrying out the order was delayed pending the Supreme Court's ruling:

"Three appeal court judges earlier this week endorsed a plan drawn up by doctors. However, they said treatment should continue until Supreme Court justices had made a decision"

"Judges said details of the plan could not be made public because Alfie was entitled to privacy as his life came to a close"

I can only hope that the parents won't now publicise the arrangements for withdrawal of care, but frankly I'm not confident Sad

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/04/2018 19:15

Statement released by Alder Hey today: www.alderhey.nhs.uk/latest-statement-regarding-alfie-evans-20th-april-2018/

WowLookAtYou · 20/04/2018 19:19

"No application to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg can or should change that.”

So, what does that mean, when it's since been announced that that's exactly what Tom and Kate are intending to do? Can the ECHR over-rule the UK's Supreme Courts? Is that a wishful thinking statement?

WowLookAtYou · 20/04/2018 19:19

And by "wishful thinking," I mean the legalities of it all, not anyone wishing Alfie's death.

CocoaGin · 20/04/2018 19:20

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