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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Alfie Evans

999 replies

IcySlippy · 01/02/2018 11:50

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/alfie-evans-parents-plead-sons-14231597

Anyone following this?

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 23/04/2018 08:41

This has gone too far now. I genuinely feel concerned for the safety of the staff who are caring for him when the inevitable happens.

WowLookAtYou · 23/04/2018 08:43

Nobody was making judgements about "the whole of Liverpool" in that precious thread. Someone got the wrong end of the stick on something and ran with it.

And also, I don't see the staff shouting about anything here.

Birdsgottafly · 23/04/2018 08:53

Wowlookatyou I got into arguments about the comments being made about Liverpool and its people (me and my children being from there, so included). That wasn't my imagination.

The Staff shouting, referred to the outline of the petition. Its states that Staff are an exception to being able to protest outside of a hospital.

I know why the thread was deleted. It was the sharing of private information about Tom. As though he needs to shut up about his Son dying because he's hasn't been perfect. Posters were reveling in it.

MynameisJune · 23/04/2018 08:53

TE put himself in the limelight and continues to do so. Unfortunately that means he opens himself up to scrutiny from the general public. Not everyone is going to agree, not everyone is going to feel sorry for him and therefore excuse his behaviour. Calling Dr and nurses murderers isn’t on. Neither is threatening behaviour. Interestingly if KJ is pregnant again I expect they’ll be having a delivery involving NHS staff, the very same ones he is decrying as evil.

MarvelleGazelle · 23/04/2018 08:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TidyDancer · 23/04/2018 08:57

Gosh the army are really angry about DoC going into labour aren't they? Someone has also suggested putting Alfie into a sling and lowering him out of a window. ConfusedHmm

This madness has got to stop. TE is in very real danger now of missing being with Alfie when he dies.

apostropheuse · 23/04/2018 08:58

One of "The Army" thinks that the Duchess of Cambridge was actually deliberately induced today to take the attention away from Alfie. Good grief.Hmm

Wornoutbear · 23/04/2018 09:01

Haribo sending love to you all, so sorry you have the worry of this. I'm concerned as both my son and his girlfriend are health professionals in Liverpool, and have met abuse from random army people. One of their friends was spat on, and her car kicked as she tried to get to work. What on earth will happen next?

HariboIsMyCrack · 23/04/2018 09:01

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Tessliketrees · 23/04/2018 09:02

@Swimagainstthetide

You're wasting your time. People are having too much fun reading the army pages and running back here to clutch their pearls and gossip, you only need to look at the names in the thread to see how obsessed some people are with the case.

The cognitive dissonance it too ingrained, they really think they are different and this is some sort of intellectual discussion that is important for reasons undisclosed. They bemoan the Armys lack of facts and understanding while jumping all over any unverified claim that fits their view.

You can't argue because they will, rightly, point out that you are discussing it too. If you engage you risk becoming one of them. Just hide the thread and remember it's actually made up mainly of a small minority of people.

MarvelleGazelle · 23/04/2018 09:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Brendaofbeechhouse · 23/04/2018 09:09

I think that Facebook page is full of trolls who are goading the 'army' to see how much they will believe. And the answer seems to be just about anything.

HariboIsMyCrack · 23/04/2018 09:09

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Swimagainstthetide · 23/04/2018 09:13

Do the doctors and nurses really get that upset about being called names by distressed relatives though? It's a genuine question. It's in the job description. Quite literally. Or at least, it's in my job description. Dealing with angry and upset relatives in highly charged situations. If a relative calls me/you a murderer, they have revealed that they are grieving and have misunderstood the EOL process. Nothing has changed about me, morally or practically. I still know that I am providing gold standard care for my patient and relieving them off suffering as they go through an inevitable process that we have no control over, however advanced medicine has become.

Once you withdraw life support, only the reserves of the human body remain, and we cannot predict what they will do. All we can then do is pre-empt and respond to symptoms of pain and distress, so that the patient can be comfortable in their last hours, or even days.

Nobody likes to be insulted, attacked, or punished for doing their job. But their job is to care for the patient, and by extension, their family. Dying didn't make anyone automatically a nice person, and it doesn't make your relatives nice, sensible, wise, rational, or able to process complex information. That doesn't mean we can choose not to deal with those people and cry in the corner.

CocoaGin · 23/04/2018 09:17

I would imagine that the press officer at Alder Hey is thanking Kate and William this morning. It will dominate the headlines today thankfully.

Bbbbbbbb2017 · 23/04/2018 09:18

Did I misread the latest post of comparing this to the holocaust?

Zoflorabore · 23/04/2018 09:19

I honestly don't think it will happen today. There is too much animosity.

I agree with Birds re the last thread. I too am from Liverpool and felt me and her were only defending our city in light of some of the comments on the thread.

Whatever, it's not important now. What is important is that Alfie is allowed to die with dignity and I fear that may not be the case.

Shame on those fuelling TE on the page, some of the suggestions are ludicrous at best but others defy belief.
"Ring the C.A.B" "put him on a boat" for example.

These people will go back to their little lives after Alfie dies, it's the parents who will have to deal with the emotions.

Until the next case...

I'm staying away from FB as now I have to my shame 101 "friends" on the barmy army page.
Granted, it's probably because we are local so people feel that they know someone who knows someone who knows the family but I'm struggling with keeping my mouth shut.

You can't reason with stupid.

derxa · 23/04/2018 09:20

What a sensible post Swim

Birdsgottafly · 23/04/2018 09:24

MynameisJune, as backwards as Liverpool is claimed to be, we have a separate Women's Hospital. So Kate won't have to give Birth in AH.

As long as the Doctors, Police and Judges are in agreement that Tom is acting out of Character because of the mitigating circumstances, that's all that matters.

Not the opinion of people no better than the barmy side of the Army.

You don't feel sorry for him? That's psychopath levels of empathy fail.

SoupyNorman · 23/04/2018 09:26

Do the doctors and nurses really get that upset about being called names by distressed relatives though? It's a genuine question. It's in the job description. Quite literally.

Can you point to where in the job description for NHS staff it says that they should accept being abused by distressed families? I must have imagined all those posters in hospitals saying that aggression/abuse/violence towards staff will not be tolerated.

Hmm
cocoabutterformula · 23/04/2018 09:28

Of course everyone feels huge empathy for him Birds but as has been shown on these threads many other parents have had to go through similarly horrific ordeals when faced with a similar prognosis for their children but most of them don't behave in the way that he is conducting himself, you just cannot treat medics and fellow patients in the way that he is doing and expect much sympathy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

MynameisJune · 23/04/2018 09:32

@birds I was referring to the fact that TEnis decrying the NHS as inherently evil. Not just AH. So even at the woman’s hospital it will still be NHS staff. Also where have I ever said Liverpool was backwards, they’re your words. Don’t project your insecurities onto me.

My previous post was deleted with the old thread but I only have sympathy for both TE and KJ. I have a DD not much older than Alfie, I can only imagine how they feel. Whether or not I agree with his actions doesn’t take away that my heart breaks for them and what they are going to face.

So read my post properly first before you start calling me a psychopath. I said not everyone will feel sorry for him. Not that I don’t feel sorry him.

trekkingintheandes · 23/04/2018 09:33

Of course the staff get upset being abused by relatives! They are caring people by their very natures, to be called names when they are only trying to do their best is just awful. It is utterly beyond me how people can do this when they are being cared for, I would think cases like this will put people off from joining the profession or certainly from working at high profile hospitals like GOSH or Alder Hay.

Swimagainstthetide · 23/04/2018 09:36

My job description/person spec states that I must be able to deal with angry and upset relatives in highly charged situations. E.g. "Things aren't always going to be nice and polite, people will throw their toys out of their pram when you just can't give them the answers they need or want to hear, and you will just.have.to.deal.with.it."

Yes, there is a line. No, death threats, actual violence against staff, etc., would not be tolerated, but people getting confused between giving medication to ease distressing symptoms, which may also be sedating and slow breathing down a bit, and "offing my mother/Sister/father/brother" .... Well how can we blame them? It is confusing and the Supreme Court has even had to work out where the line is between it all.

Sirzy · 23/04/2018 09:37

Hospitals have a zero tolerance approach to abuse for a very good reason! No matter how upset they should never accept abuse.