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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Alfie Evans

999 replies

IcySlippy · 01/02/2018 11:50

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/alfie-evans-parents-plead-sons-14231597

Anyone following this?

OP posts:
Pessismistic · 22/04/2018 22:01

You a neurologist? How does he suck a dummy or yawn or sneeze?

LadyPenelope68 · 22/04/2018 22:02

Sorry, but he’s totally lost the plot. Prosecuting doctors for murder, the same doctors who have tried their best to help Alfie and support this family.

As I posted on the first thread, we were in the PICU at AH two weeks ago and the disruption this family caused for staff and parents of desperately ill children was absolutely disgusting. I just hope that things have been put in place to protect those other children and their families on the PICU who are going through a traumatic time themselves, some of who will also have children who are not going to pull through. If this all kicks off tomorrow I feel desperately sorry for those other dignified and heartbroken families, but not for those causing issue for others.

Some people probably think my comments are harsh, but when you’ve been on that unit with all this disruption going on, you’d understand, you’d feel the same way.

DeadButDelicious · 22/04/2018 22:02

Reading TE's latest post it is so plainly obvious that he is not a man who is used to being told 'No'. He seems to genuinely think that if he kicks off for long enough, makes enough noise and enough threats then eventually he will get his way. I think given time, he will come to regret some of his actions.

I feel desperately sad for everyone involved in this but none more so than Alfie. He needs his dad. He needs his dad to be with him at the end of his tragically short life, he doesn't need someone who is ranting and raving at the injustice of it all.

cocoabutterformula · 22/04/2018 22:04

No one is mocking him, but his actions are unreasonable at the very least. Many people on here have described terrible situations very similar to Alfie's but where they have accepted the clinical observations and recommendations. Everybody has huge sympathy for the family at this time but not how it is being played out.

IrenetheQuaint · 22/04/2018 22:05

Have you read the legal judgement, Pessismistic? It refers to reports by several neurologists who agree, very sadly, that Alfie has no chance of recovery.

www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/alder-hey-v-evans.pdf

theredjellybean · 22/04/2018 22:06

Pessimistic.. Those are some of the last basic reflexes the brainstem controls. As far as I understand from reports Alfie has a small amount of brainstem left... For now but it is deteriorating.
What do you think the doctors should do?

Burntout93 · 22/04/2018 22:06

Is tomorrow likely to see a big development?

Ollivander84 · 22/04/2018 22:06

People with a massive brain injury that's not survivable can still have movements, it's called posturing
So his quality of life is he can suck a dummy and yawn. He can't improve because his brain is deteriorating/turning to water. So he will never play or swim or talk or run or go to school. I wouldn't want that life for a child, its life for the sake of being alive, not for quality

cocoabutterformula · 22/04/2018 22:06

I am not sure that pessimistic is going to answer any reasonable questions levied at her/him.

LetsGoFlyAKiteee · 22/04/2018 22:06

I don't see what the lawyers can do. This must be a heat of the moment post... But it posts like these which are bringing on death threats even if nothing behind them for people to post them... I'll be surprised if names aren't published even if for a brief period.

NerrSnerr · 22/04/2018 22:07

@Pessismistic Have you read this? www.alderhey.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/FAQs-Updated-20042018.pdf there's also a link to the judgments at the bottom. The Q&A explains about the movements.

People on these threads wants what's best for Alfie. He isn't going to recover. He deserves a dignified and peaceful death.

x2boys · 22/04/2018 22:08

I have every sympathy with alfies parents but TE is in denial all the reports shoe that Alfie is only alive because of the life support he has no quality of life at all of course he loves his son but there isn't going to be a miracle and yes I do have Kids one of whom has significant disabillities fortunately his condition isnt life threatening and he does have a good quality of life.

Dogjustguffed · 22/04/2018 22:08

@TheFairyCaravan that post is so sinister, not only in his tone but also the fact that someone fairly literate wrote it. TE clearly had a lot of help drafting it...I do wonder who he is in touch with behind the scenes, and which groups are preventing him from facing reality (and why).

CocoaGin · 22/04/2018 22:08

he’s sees life in Alfie he has evidence he responds to things he is not 100% brain dead

Yes of course Dad knows better than Doctors who have spent 10 years + training Confused. If only the barmy army were running a hospital, there would be no death of a child ever because they've all looked on google and can go to the small claims court.

Sarahconnor1 · 22/04/2018 22:08

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-exactly-alfie-evanss-condition-14540668.amp reasonable summary here Pessismistic

DarkDarkNight · 22/04/2018 22:09

Efrig He is surely in danger of not being allowed to be there when the life support is withdrawn. How else can Alder Hey guarantee the safety and privacy of the staff and that of patients and their families?

He has said he can't control the protesters, he is escalating the language. There has already been arguments where the mother has been removed. How are the staff expected to carry out the court order in that atmosphere of intimidation?

cocoabutterformula · 22/04/2018 22:11

Could the hospital in theory take out an injunction? Cordon off the whole area? What has it come to that hospitals are in effect hijacked like this for doing what is best for a patient.

Pessismistic · 22/04/2018 22:12

You are missing the bigger picture he is fighting to save his sons life doctors are not always right he just doesn’t want to sit back and agree so he’s been mocked saying he’s acting like a spoilt brat how many of you on here slagging him off are going through his pain or been through it? At least when he looks back he can say he did everything possible whether good or bad he never gave up that won’t be a regret he will ever have.

CockOffPostmanPat · 22/04/2018 22:13

But it isn't actually about TE, @Pessismistic . It's about Alfie, who has no quality of life and will never recover.

Dinosaurchicken · 22/04/2018 22:13

I really don’t know how they will do it unless he reaches some kind of acceptance.

I would be concerned for their safety.

CocoaGin · 22/04/2018 22:14

I've lost a child pessismistic but didn't throw my toys out of the pram. I behaved with the dignity and love that my son was worthy of. And I thanked the Doctors and Nurses who treated us with care and compassion.

Dinosaurchicken · 22/04/2018 22:15

Actually the bigger picture is that Alfie is a very very ill child who is being artificially kept alive and that multiple experts have agreed this is no longer in his best interests to continue.

cocoabutterformula · 22/04/2018 22:15

Totally agree that it is about Alfie not Tom.

You still haven't explained why you don't think that the doctors want to help Alfie and why they wouldn't?

NerrSnerr · 22/04/2018 22:16

The bigger picture is that is not about TE it's about Alfie and what's best for him- no one else.

It really concerns me that TE will kick off when they switch off Alfie's machines and that is not fair on Alfie. I think the hospital must be seriously considering banning him from being present, not just for the safety of staff but to give Alfie peace in his final moments.

cocoabutterformula · 22/04/2018 22:16

CocoaGin this must be so hard for you and other parents' who have suffered similar losses. Flowers