Alfie Evans

[IcySlippy]

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/alfie-evans-parents-plead-sons-14231597

Anyone following this?

Where is mum in all this? I hope she is ok.

This poor little boy should be allowed privacy, that letter shouldn't be posted on social media. If Tom wanted to post about it, he could have done that without the letter being posted.

Last i read they had said about going to try another appeal at the European Court of Human Rights, is that still going ahead? Does the hospital have to wait to hear about it before proceeding?

Well I'm sorry you feel that way @Tessliketrees because I'm not ashamed at all for referring to the group. When you have an entirely deluded echo chamber like the barmy army have created themselves, it is important forums exist to counter that. There are stupid people in the dignity4life group, of course there are, but they are a mostly rational, intelligent and objective group. The barmy army are the complete opposite.

Alfie's brain is now only cerebral fluid and is degrading further. It will never come back. They should let him die in peace, but also the parents should have the final say where and when this happens.

Both sides of this are beyond reprive. Alderhey Drs and representatives were seen laughing in court. They seem to have forgotten the 'organ scandal' was barely a generation ago and it affected thousands of families in the city and children brought from across the country for care. No one in the city has forgotten that and the nightmare the hospital endured for years after.

I fear the comeback from this and a clearly grieving and distressed father may go beyond what they expect. I don't think he will hold back with whatever he will do after Alfie passes. The distress in his posts shows that and it's very worrying.

I don’t have much faith that the names of the doctors aren’t being circulated by word of mouth

Ditto the date

I can only hope proper security arrangements will be in place when Alfie finally passes ...

When were the doctors laughing in court? Who reported it?

@TidyDancer

When you have an entirely deluded echo chamber like the barmy army have created themselves, it is important forums exist to counter that

It's just another echo chamber on the other "side" of something that shouldn't have fucking "sides".

What is the importance of reposting his plan for end of life care?

They care about his dignity yet reproduce that just so those people who can't discuss on the group get on opportunity to pick over it while bemoaning how horrible it is that it's come to that. Apparently it's fine to read, post and discuss as long as you are on the right side.

Did you see the other night when the allegations about Tom Evans came out? Nobody I saw questioned it at all despite not a lick of evidence I could see. It was because the claims fit in with the narrative they liked. I think a lot of them are sincere but, just like the army, have been caught up in the Facebook mob mentality of it all.

They are mostly exactly the same as the Army only they can spell.

@Puzzledandpissedoff the date has been said on there so you're right. Haven't seen the names of the doctors but I suspect they're there too.

That group and their leader are stripping dignity away from that poor little baby. I feel so sad for the mum.

@TidyDancer but I thought the date had been redacted??

Like I said, the group is mostly rational etc, you get people who are dumb as a box of rocks everywhere. I didn't say I agreed with the reposting of the medical details (and fwiw I don't).

The allegations against the father have been evidenced (some admittedly are hearsay regarding the hospital 'behaviour') and he has admitted to them (with his own narrative as to why). Personally I'd prefer the entire sorry history was kept out what's going on now. Again though, there are stupid people everywhere.

@Puzzledandpissedoff yes it had. Someone asked and was told. Horrifying.

@TinyDancer

He hasn't admitted anything that I have seen. He has made a vague apology that could have been for anything. Is that what you are talking about?

Anyway I think we largely agree that the group is problematic and damaging.

Only you seem to think there is also something "important" in there where as I think it's generally awful.

I think the dignity group started with the right intentions but has got lost some what along the way. The dignity part is right however that's what he deserves and doesn't seem to be getting.

Feel for those treating him who have all these accusations and yet no doubt have his best interests at heart. Yet being accused of do much

I don't agree the group is damaging @Tessliketrees, but I do think there are damaging people in it. There are far far more damaging people in the barmy army.

I don't know what you've read about the father and it's not a good idea to go further into it here as I'm told previous threads have been pulled because people have actually said what happened.

I think lots of people have lost sight of what this case is actually about and that's the worst thing of all.

I wouldn't be surprised if the timeline CofA stipulated - endorsed by the Supreme Court - was deliberately created in order to give enough time to as allow an application appeal to - and a response from - the SC and ECHR

I very much hope you're right; after all, given some of the reactions it would surely have been the sensible thing to do

Beyond empathy for the fact that that he's about to lose his little lad I can't post my views about the father as it would get me banned. I can only trust that enough arrangements have been made to allow poor Alfie to pass with a dignity some have denied him so far

@Tinydancer

I think that distinction is meaningless. A Facebook group is the people in it.

Tell yourself whatever you need to though, I'm off for Sunday Lunch.

I really feel for Alfie's Mum who doesn't seem to be getting much of a look in regarding any of it. I hope she has some support around her.

We won't be agreeing @Tessliketrees and I'm not up for an argument with you on this. It's utterly pointless. Enjoy your lunch.

The most awful situation I can envisage is this little boy dying with hospital security present, or with his parent/s being removed. Life support will be withdrawn in PICU, the hospital can not allow any disturbance to other seriously ill patients and their families. The father needs to step away from social media, I suspect he's not listening to anybody telling him this though.

Does the hospital have a separate area where it could happen - as far as way from other patients and their families as possible.

It says in the letter TE has put on the Facebook page it will be in Alfie's PICU cubicle. Alder Hey have said it is the most private cubicle and they will try to ensure if there are empty beds in the unit at the time they will be the ones adjacent to the cubicle.

An old school friend of mine follows all this on facebook and is always posting the petitions and sharing the dads posts and even changed her profile picture to one of Alfie. I find it all very disturbing.

The dad 100% needs to stop posting such private stuff all over social media. All those posts about the way the hospital are apparently treating Alfie and all those personal photos of injuries etc need to be kept for lawyers and courts. The whole of facebook has no need to see them. It's not helping, it's just creating an even bigger frenzy in people that have absolutely no attachment to Alfie what so ever. They'll all forget about the little mite as soon as he's gone.

I really hope his parents can somehow come to terms with what's happening and let him pass with some sort of peace.

Does PICU not have any private rooms - acording to Wiki alder hay is 70% private rooms and in theory it does not have to place in PICU - like Charlie Gard was moved to a hospice Alife could be moved to another part of Alder Hay.