AIBU to think yr5 is young to learn about the Holocaust

[Nolaughingmatter]

Dd is learning about the war at school. She’s been really interested in the topic and I thought it would be more about life for children, battles, bombing, DD day etc.
They’ve now started to teach about the Holocaust. Dd personally isn’t upset about learning this, she more found it incredulous that people would commit such attrocities..
As an only child and with me not going out to work, we have time to talk and I am able to explain things to her in a way it won’t phase her. However, not all kids are like her, some may be going home upset and possibly not even talk to their parents.
Dd told me they viewed a film about the camps with dead bodies today and touched on the gas chambers. Again it didn’t upset her. I imagine the film was footage taken at the end of the war when the allied forces arrived.
Just wanted to ask mumsnet about school teaching this so young.
I’ve used a different username as this post is very identifying.

What age do you think is appropriate?

I think that it's ok to teach them about some of the atrocities that occured but it is inappropriate to show them graphic videos of dead bodies.

I remember watching a video about concentration camps in year 6 (I would've been 8/9). We saw people being taken to the gas chambers - I remember because the girl sitting next to me said she would've taken her gas mask in and I said you couldn't because they took everything off you. I got sent out for talking.

I think yabu. It's not something new in the curriculum, I watched a video about it over 20 years ago

DH is a teacher and the book The Boy in Striped Pyjamas was read in year 5.

I think it's appropriate.

I am sure my DD2 learned about the holocaust at about that stage. They watched The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas. She found it quite upsetting but it led to a lot of constructive discussions about what happened at that time.

To be honest i don't know if there is a right time. My DD1 did her degree dissertation on something very much related to the holocaust and it left her depressed and on medication. She found it very bleak. But it is reality.

Really? I was learning about Connie ten Boom in Sunday School well before that. She was my hero.

Although not as much as my Grandmother who was imprisoned by the Germans for most of the war. My mother remembers her coming home and not knowing who she was. That and Germans shooting in their hallway.

So what age do you think is appropriate to learn about these things? Your DD wasn't upset and understood it was wrong to commit atrocities.

twatty
For my dd it’s fine at this age. But I think perhaps more like 12/13 to ensure everyone can handle it. However, I don’t have a 12 yo so I wouldn’t know.
What about the kids, who have nightmares? My friends ds came home really upset and refused to eat. I know it’s a reality. I just wanted views from parents. And perhaps primary school teachers.

I think it's appropriate. The teacher will also know how to do it so she doesn't just cause upset.

Ok thanks. General consensus is that it’s ok. As I said in my last post, it’s really perhaps some the other kids. My friends ds is really upset.

I already told dd about some of the attrocities before she learnt about them in class. But didn’t expect them to be taught it actually so said this was off topic and not really a discussion for School. I’m happier that I told her than School tbh.

The subject is not inappropriate but I would expect the teacher to tailor the teaching for the age group.
We've talked to our 9yo about it, it's an important subject. I don't expect schools to avoid subjects just because they are 'difficult' but teaching should reflect this and work for the age group / it's various abilities etc (& understand that not all parents will support this teaching or know how to)

You thought learning about places being bombed is more acceptable? It sounds as if your dd is really taking notice and learning. Be happy. Don't look for issues!

I was in Y5 back in the 1980s. I remember the teacher and the lessons vividly, it made an impression and I recall feeling very angry rather than upset. We watched a video but there were no dead bodies visible on it - that may have been tough at that age. I remember a man from our nearest city's synagogue coming to talk to us the next day - he had managed to get to the UK in the late 1930s but some of his family stayed put and sadly faced the consequences.

Learning what happened to others historically is fine.

My father arrived in England when he was 10. He came on Kinder transport. A little boy all alone (I didn't understand the enormity of it until I kissed my 10 year old son night night on his 10th birthday - at that point i understood all of my father's vulnerabilities and coukdn't tell him. He died when DS was 5).

His parents and little sister didn't survive. I have a Jewish heritage. I grew up with the knowledge, my father lived with the vicarious experience, my grandparents and aunt lived and died it.

Watching a sanitised film is fine.

I felt DS1 was too young when they did the boy in the striped pyjamas in English Lit in Year 7. Year 5 is definitely too young IMO and I'm surprised at the saying their year 5s saw the film, its a 12.

DS2 is in year 6 and they are visiting a holocaust exhibition in the summer term (but seeing a limited part of it designed for young children). I suspect that's in readiness for the boy in the striped pyjamas in year 7. DS2 would be very upset by it now. He does however already know about the holocaust in a general way.

Year 5 is about right for these topics to be raised so long as the material isn’t too graphic. My son is aware of it - he’s Year 5 - he seems to be ok.

YY to what Francis said. In the 80s I can't imagine getting to year 5 and not knowing anything at all about the Holocaust.

Aside from my mum's side of the family, I had my DF who had been an evacuee and been bombed out in the Blitz and gone to 16 schools and ended up with no qualifications. And there was Uncle Jack who had been in the Far East and had come back 'changed', always said in ominous tones, and that was as much as we talked about it.

So there was a general family awareness that something terrible had happened in fairly recent times.

And then things were always being shut because of the IRA, Hyde Park and the horses was on the news for ever. I was far more upset about that than them nearly killing Maggie Thatcher.

Of course it’s ok! I’m 38, and studied the Holocaust from junior school onwards! I find it quite bizarre you’re happy with ‘bombing’ but not the work and concentration camps.

Are you actually aware of what the allies did to Dresden? Now THAT’S graphic.

Marriedwithchildren
I do think the bombing is different. Still horrendous. Because it’s more abstract and there was far more chance of escape. People could live in their homes until they were destroyed, could hide in shelters and be evacuated.

I was asking for views really and I’m not upset that they’ve shown dd a film of dead bodies.

The horrible histories books on it are pretty graphic so YABU. It’s important for children to learn about it.

Francis and Raindrops
Thank you for sharing your personal stories. My mother learnt very young. She was born in the war. Her father liberated Belsen. Being a child of the 70’s myself, I learnt a lot about the IRA bombings.

Babycham
Yes, I know a lot about the war. I’m very interested. It seems dd takes after me in this way.

@Raindropsandsparkles that brought a tear to my eye. DH's great grandparents and family died in Auschiwitz, we don't know what happened to my great grandmother's family but she came over before the war at a similar age and never saw her parents again. for you.

Glitter
I get that it’s important to learn. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago and it was about secondary kids, who’d recently been taught about the holocaust. The poster was asking if it was unreasonable for the teacher of an unrelated topic to say they aren’t in a concentration camp. It made me think yr5 is young.

I told dd about the gas chambers, the conditions in the ghetto and how people were systematically starved last week. I didn’t expect them to be taught it at school. That’s all.

Bobbie
Your post made me reread Raindrops post again. Sorry. It’s hard being the op to absorb everything.
For your families, who suffered, so much, I’m truly sorry

People here have spoken very eloquently about the way tge holocaust has affected their families. We must learn about these things to remember those affected and in the hope that it will stop similar happening again (although looking at tge world I do sometimes despair!)

As an aside - not just directed at OP but all those who say year 5 is too young. Every year 5 child I’ve known has read The Hunger Games (my own children did in year 5). How can people think it’s OK to read something like this but not OK to learn about our own very recent history (please note I’m not equating THG to the holocaust it’s just an example of a very violent novel popular with children in year 5.)