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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think yr5 is young to learn about the Holocaust

146 replies

Nolaughingmatter · 30/01/2018 22:32

Dd is learning about the war at school. She’s been really interested in the topic and I thought it would be more about life for children, battles, bombing, DD day etc.
They’ve now started to teach about the Holocaust. Dd personally isn’t upset about learning this, she more found it incredulous that people would commit such attrocities..
As an only child and with me not going out to work, we have time to talk and I am able to explain things to her in a way it won’t phase her. However, not all kids are like her, some may be going home upset and possibly not even talk to their parents.
Dd told me they viewed a film about the camps with dead bodies today and touched on the gas chambers. Again it didn’t upset her. I imagine the film was footage taken at the end of the war when the allied forces arrived.
Just wanted to ask mumsnet about school teaching this so young.
I’ve used a different username as this post is very identifying.

OP posts:
Helmetbymidnight · 31/01/2018 09:48

It will happen again if people chose scapegoating of minorities, othering, divisive politics, and hate, not because yr 5s have to wait until say, yr 7 to learn about one million and a half children being stripped, pushed into gas-chambers and systematically murdered.

Original poster
Nolaughingmatter · 31/01/2018 09:49

Hosta
I think films are great for topic discussion! Stacks of shoes, people on the train, footage of the prisoners in their bunks, all fine by me. Not so sure about the mass of dead bodies.

Scary
That same could be used as an argument to show footage to babies or 4 yos. They obviously wouldn’t get it. I agree children must be taught.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nolaughingmatter · 31/01/2018 09:52

Your ex finances Wink dgm must have been a mine of information.

OP posts:
OOOOOOOOOOO · 31/01/2018 09:54

I think 5 is too young. I'd mention wats and conflicts a little bit but I wouldn't talk about concentration camps until they were older.

I'd suggest, maybe 7 or 8?

sinceyouask · 31/01/2018 09:57

I don't think it's too young at all. I had read the Diary of Anne Frank before year 5 and that definitely wasn't my first introduction to the Holocaust.

CrazyExIngenue · 31/01/2018 09:58

No she was. The only thing I miss about that relationship. She was a card. Her DH went AWOL to marry her and stole a parachute to make her wedding dress out of! LOL.

mustbemad17 · 31/01/2018 10:00

I don't think it's too young at all. We are military, I did my schooling in Germany & from the very beginning we did the Holocaust (I don't remember it that early but my folks gave me all my school bits they'd kept). Okay it was a bit more 'relevant' to us in some people's opinions because WW2 explained directly why we were stationed over there, but imo it is something that every child should learn. It's usually age appropriate anyway.

It worries me that some schools don't seem to put as much effort into it any more. Lots of lessons to be learned

OOOOOOOOOOO · 31/01/2018 10:00

I don't think anyone is questioning why children should be taught about the horrors of war it's just the timing of when it's taught. I feel that kids could understand the magnitude and significance of the holocaust better at an older age.

I don't see what the benefit would be for children learning about it at 5 rather than a few years later.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 31/01/2018 10:04

Former History teacher here, if it's relevant and I personally believe year 5 is too young. I think there is plenty of time to discover that the world can be a horrible place and primary school is too soon.
I have a year 5 dc, who has not read THG or anything like it. Kids in her class are still playing with my little ponies - let them keep their innocence for a bit longer.

Situp · 31/01/2018 10:04

I remember in year 8 we read an account of a baby being killed in a concentration camp. I won't share the details which were horrific but 25 years later it still haunts me.

I think that the lessons from the Holocaust can be taught to children without the use of graphic material.

OOOOOOOOOOO · 31/01/2018 10:05

Oh I missed the bit in the OPs OP where she said her son was shown a film with dead bodies in it. I definitely think that's inappropriate and should be shown to older children.

I would have have definitely not given permission for my children to see that if I had been given a choice. Not at five.

mustbemad17 · 31/01/2018 10:09

I'm confused, are we talking year 5 or five years old??

OOOOOOOOOOO · 31/01/2018 10:10

5 year olds

OOOOOOOOOOO · 31/01/2018 10:11

Scrap that it's YEAR 5.

OOOOOOOOOOO · 31/01/2018 10:11

Sorry I had misread the OPBlushBlushBlush

Ohyesiam · 31/01/2018 10:12

I was helping in my son's school when they were doing ww2 in year 5. It came to the holocaust, and I was really agitated about it , it pushed my buttons.
I wondered if the material they used was inappropriate.
But the kids were amazing with it, they shared how they felt ( and the teacher really skilfully created a safe atmosphere fur then to do this). They said the most sensitive and insightful things, and I saw a maturity, and even a wisdom in them that I hadn't before.
I had to change my mind, and really know now that it is right to teach year 5 children what happened, and what people are capable of. The thing that really stayed with my ds was that Hitler was voted in. Which was a massive life lesson for him in tolerance, and accepting difference, and how far it can go if you don't.

Trashboat · 31/01/2018 10:16

As an only child and with me not going out to work, we have time to talk and I am able to explain things to her in a way it won’t phase her.

I work full time, have 1 dd and I still manage to find time to chat with her about important issues. How bloody condescending!!

lazyleo · 31/01/2018 10:17

Sorry, what age is Year 5? I don't think I'd have an issue with my 8 year old being taught about the gas chambers but it would certainly distress her, so I'd like a bit of warning so that I was able to deal with that at home. Our school is doing WWII at the moment for those kids aged 10/11 (Primary 6 & 7)

My DD was heartbroken when the death in a fire of Mr Stink's wife was revelaed towards the end of the David Walliam's book by the same name and wouldn't sleep for hours.... and then had nightmares for a few nights about our house being on fire. So yes some children could be badly affected. But it is something we must ensure our children learn about and is never forgotten. But I genuinely don't know when is the 'right' age.

mindutopia · 31/01/2018 10:21

Well, mine's in reception and we talk about war and refugees. It's not driven by school, but it's just something that's come up because of current events and some books we've read together. So Yr5 doesn't seem too early to me! I don't think we've ever specifically talked about the Holocaust, but I'm Jewish and think it's obviously really important that she learns about that as it's part of her history (not to mention, very current these days sadly). I'm sure we would probably do it before Yr5 though, so to me that almost seems quite late. I think it sounds appropriate so long as it's done critically and in context and not just glorified or left without much debriefing after a film, for instance.

OfaFrenchmind2 · 31/01/2018 10:22

I think it is actually good for a child to be upset at this. Let it make a long lasting impression of this feeling of upset and maybe rage on them so that when faced with those atrocities coming back (and they will), they hopefully will not freeze, will not be complacent.

rohop · 31/01/2018 10:23

This reply has been deleted

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lazyleo · 31/01/2018 10:23

Trashboat, I don't think the previous poster meant it in a condescending manner although I understand why you perceive it that way. I know that a lot of parents don't get home till well after 6pm and by the time you've had dinner often the evening is gone and much of the family bonding time falls at the weekend. Discussing a topic like this for some kids would take quite a while, I know I wouldn't want to be discussing it after dinner at bedtime with my daughter, so much depends on the ages / bedtimes etc but I know I'd find it an easier discussion between 4-5pm than between 7-8pm and especially if you have a younger child who you are trying to do word box or Biff, Chip & bloody Kipper with who you don't want to be part of that conversation. I think the poster meant it more kindly than you have taken it - perhaps I am wrong though. For me the important part would be communication from the school so parents are prepared for any questions and discussions that come from the lessons.

sonjadog · 31/01/2018 10:26

I'm a history teacher. I think it is fine to teach 8 year olds about the topic (in an age appropriate way), and that it is also okay that they get upset about it. It should be upsetting. I don't think we do children any favours at all by avoiding topics that they find sad.

helenoftroyville · 31/01/2018 10:33

I think it is appropriate.

Original poster
Nolaughingmatter · 31/01/2018 10:36

lazyleo
Trashboat was talking about my op. Thank you. Yes, this is exactly what I meant in a kindly way. I tried to clarify this upthread but you have done so far better.

OP posts: