AIBU to think yr5 is young to learn about the Holocaust

[Nolaughingmatter]

Dd is learning about the war at school. She’s been really interested in the topic and I thought it would be more about life for children, battles, bombing, DD day etc.
They’ve now started to teach about the Holocaust. Dd personally isn’t upset about learning this, she more found it incredulous that people would commit such attrocities..
As an only child and with me not going out to work, we have time to talk and I am able to explain things to her in a way it won’t phase her. However, not all kids are like her, some may be going home upset and possibly not even talk to their parents.
Dd told me they viewed a film about the camps with dead bodies today and touched on the gas chambers. Again it didn’t upset her. I imagine the film was footage taken at the end of the war when the allied forces arrived.
Just wanted to ask mumsnet about school teaching this so young.
I’ve used a different username as this post is very identifying.

No problem nolaughingmatter - can anyone clarify what age a Year 5 pupil is?

Y5 in UK is 9/10 year olds lazyleo

YABU. It's never too young if it means that kids have an inkling of the ultimate dangers of racism.

The flip side is the girl I'd met travelling aged 20, who'd never heard of the Holocaust. Her excuse was she'd never done history at school. That really shocked me.

If it's too shocking then might that just mean some children try and avoid the subject and learn less than if the subject is introduced more gently.

I read and watch a lot of TV shows about the awful things that are currently going on in our world but don't believe I have to actually 'see' some of the more horrific images to be able to understand them. For example I try to avoid watching footage of people jumping to their death from the two towers and I have never actually watched an ISIS beheading. I'm not a 'snowflake' I just chose not to watch. It doesn't add anything to my understanding.

I don't see why children can't be taught about the horrors of war without implanting such awful images in their heads. I get that It's not a problem for a lot of children but it will be for some.

Have the posters who think children should be shown these images shown the videos of the ISIS beheadings to their children?

OP You evidently didn't read the piece the other day about a Jewish mother in Berlin who gave herself up to the Nazis after her 4 year old son was arrested. I go where he goes was her comment (paraphrasing). They went to the gas chambers.

When you consider what some 4 year olds endure, if they can endure it, surely we can learn about it?

I went to school in the60/70s,did O level history that included the wars and the Holocaust wasn't mentioned once.The only reason I knew was that I had read the diary of Anne Frank ,talked to my parents about it and searched in the library.

Onlyoldontheoutside
I’m around 10 years younger than you. I didn’t choose history as an option for O level so I had 2 years less schooling than you on history and also never learnt. I think that is also very wrong. What I know is because I’ve actively sought out information.

scaryteacher
I had to endure a lot from my brother. Obviously no where near what these children suffered and saw. But I’m not yet teaching my 9 yo about it, she witnessed enough violence last year. And no point did I say I didn’t want my dd to learn about the Holocaust.

Wouldnt most parents do the same as that mother? Protect your child whatever happens, at least they will be with you.

Thanks whyayepetal

I have to say I disagree with the notion that because very innocent and very young children endured it, the next generation of children have to learn about it at a similarly young age too. Yes they have to learn at some stage in life but not when they are too young to deal with it. And much of that will depends on the age appropriateness of what is taught and how it is taught. There is devastating sexual abuse of young girls and their mothers in the Rohingya and Yadizi travesties but I certainly won't be explaining that to my 8 year old now just because it happens to other girls at her age in other parts of the world.

I started having the news on a bit more often last year when she was about 7 and used some of the pieces, particularly Syria, to discuss the idea of refugees, of governments & armies turning on their own people. Its not an easy concept when you are 6 or 7 but slowly introducing does help in my opinion. She doesn't need the graphic details. Not yet.

Your DD is interested and not upset. This shows that she's capable of absorbing, understanding and engaging with this very important area, surely?

Children of about 9 or 10 start to be aware of horror in the world anyway. I can remember starting to see things on the news at that age, and being very distressed by them. It's good that they have adult support and guidance to start ot learn about this in an age-appropriate way. I wouldn't expect a 10 year old to be put through a viewing of Night and Fog, but starting to develop some understanding the magnitude of what happened, and its gravity is important.

You evidently didn't read the piece the other day about a Jewish mother in Berlin who gave herself up to the Nazis after her 4 year old son was arrested. I go where he goes was her comment (paraphrasing). They went to the gas chambers.

Why did the op 'evidently' not read that piece? I don't get it.

For me, the older my children are when they comprehend that people wanted - and almost succeeded - and still want - to annihilate them the better. They are still v young at 9.
I knew about the holocaust forever - it is very traumatic and very frightening.

I've always been amazed at the people who say they never heard of the Holocaust because it wasn't taught in schools. There are so many references to it in everyday life - TV programmes, everyday conversation, the news, books. Did they never hear a single thing and be even the slightest bit curious?

We were taught about he holocaust in the 1970's before taking O level history as well as during O'level.

👀

I don't think it is too young to learn, though I do think that schools should make parents aware when it is going to be taught. I live in a part of north London where over 10 per cent of people in my Borough consider themselves Jewish. Even in areas with very few Jewish people, there will be others who know someone who lost relatives in the Holocaust or who lived under German occupation.

Perhaps given the Labour Party's attitude towards anti-Semitic comments by a few of their members, maybe as relevant as ever to be aware.

My friend has now spoken to her ds, who didn’t go to school yesterday as he didn’t sleep over night. She has had a meeting with the head.

Apparently it was a lot more than a short video of mounds of bodies. The children have been watching videos every afternoon about the attrocities, and some very detailed stuff including a man being shot - I’m not sure if that was on screen or off screen but he was alive one minute then he was dead. These are videos of Belsen and Auschwitz including the gas chambers, inside of furnaces (think skeletons etc), chimneys etc. And at one point, the teacher told them to look away as it was a “really bad bit”.

So no, it wasn’t done in an age appropriate way. Far too much information. The head has apologised to my friend and her son and is now reviewing the work for the rest of the term.

I would be very angry if my children had been shown graphic images from the Holocaust in Y5. Learning that it happened, fine but some things can wait a few years.

Mine both learnt (a little) about the Holocaust in Y5. Ds1 didn't really "get" it on an emotional level, ds2 absolutely did and was in floods of tears at the horror of it. And that was based on some fairly low key information (in so far as it can ever be low keg) and no images.

I don't think its too young. My two are very interested in history and we have taken them to historical sites since they were very young. They are fascinated by timelines. We went to Amsterdam last year when ds2 was Yr 6 and we were all fascinated by Anne's story.

They also love the news - some stories are scary and graphic but that is the world we live in. I don't sugarcoat for them.

I think fascinated is the wrong word re Anne Frank's House. Moved, saddened and thoughtful. I think its hard to understand how as humans we could be so cruel to each other.

We also did Normandy and the memorial museums when ds 2 was in yr 5. The 360 degree cinema in Arromanches is very moving.

DD did WWII in Y6 and we asked the teacher "how far do you go". Our main concern was that we are Germans and we didn't want any issues coming from "you did these things" etc.

The teacher confirmed they do not cover the holocaust but at the end of the term we got a letter that a Reception child had a gread-grandmother who is a Holocaust survivor and she offered to talk about it.

DD was ok with the talk, we already talked what concentrations camps are long before it and why Hitler thought it was right to set them up and even kill people in them.

Later the same day as the talk I left DD at the library while shopping next door and when I came back she had chosen several books on the topic. We took them and I had a look at them at home. We had to sit together with her to discuss the pictures and she had nightmares for several days.

I think it is vital to learn and Y5 or Y6 is a good start IF done decently and with caution. I just think that seeing the pictures or reading/hearing about it are two very different things. I only saw part of The boy in the stripped pyjama and I remember seeing a TV series about the Warsaw ghetto as a pre-teen so some things, while disturbing, are not as bad as the pictures from the camps.

Soon after the term we went to the Imperial War Museum which has a very good exhibition about the Holocaust, their recommended age is 14+ and I think for good reason.

Barbarianmum
I’m fuming. The head has put a stop to any more footage being shown and is reviewing the work for this week and next, then it’s 1/2 term here. I’ve just written an email to him insisting he informs me of exactly what the children have witnessed. I told him apologies are a nicety but I’m looking for answers.

18toys
You were doing it as parents though with your children. You get to make the choice. It’s different from teachers showing kids stuff and telling them to look away.

reluctantbrit
Good name! Dh is French. He’s got his nationality too. I understand your nervousness, I’ve been careful to explain the differences to dd. Dh and I lived in Germany for 4 years, loved it. Interesting about the 14 yo age advice.

Not sure what you mean about choice - war and mass death is usually pretty horrific whether with parents or at school. I just want to educate my children and I trust teachers to do this appropriately in the school setting being aware of all sensitivities. I know the discussions we have had after school about such topics have made us research them and want to learn more.

18toys
You get the choice to show something to your children or not. You took them for these trips. After this, I no longer have the trust in dds teachers.

I’ve been to the Anne Frank museum. I wouldn't have a problem with taking dd there. It’s far less graphic and shocking than going to School and being told to sit on the floor and watch awry black and white video footage every day for at least the past week.