to not know what is the definition of a man?

[Elendon]

I simply cannot define a man unless I bring biology into it.

Can anyone tell me what the definition of a man is?

What a whole load of bitching over nothing for no reason.

You could say that about most posts on AIBU, Flutter

And actually, it’s discussion of the basis behind a change in law which everyone on this thread thinks is patently wrong. That’s worth a discussion, isn’t it?

Yeah, but otoh I am not opposed to people wishing called a man if this is what they want to and it makes them happy why not... nobody is hurt by it so what is the problem?
To me it makes no sense but if this is what they like.

I would refer to a transman with male pronouns if they asked me to, to be polite. I wouldn’t think they were actually a man though and there’s a difference.

Shared toilets, changing rooms, clothes, pronouns, given names, hairstyles: who cares. But I do care about women’s Olympic Games being dominated by men, for instance. Or women’s violent crime rates spiking due to violent xy individuals committing crimes. Or the silencing of women’s opinions and the truth to the benefit of a very small group of men.

I am disagreeing with the concept of race as it applies to anyone.

Words can be useful in some contexts, even if their meaning gets harder to pin down the closer you look at them.

I think there are various medical conditions where race can be a factor in diagnosis. I think that's an example of it being sufficiently meaningful to be a useful concept.

Having said that I'm not sure what the difference between race and ethnicity is, so maybe I'm using the word differently to you.

Adult male human

It is very interesting the answers you have had to "define a man" - I suspect you may have had different answers if you had asked "define a woman"

IMO being a man is decided by their peers. You are either a man, or not-man. Not men includes women, TIMs, and TIFs. Men seem to police who is a man quite effectively.

Women however, anyone can become a woman as that is just part of the not-man category.

On race - www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/

Race is a social construct sex is BIOLOGY.

IMO being a man is decided by their peers. You are either a man, or not-man. Not men includes women, TIMs, and TIFs. Men seem to police who is a man quite effectively.
Oh! I think that is a VERY interesting viewpoint. Depressing but interesting.

I’m not sure I’m ready, or that I think all women and girls should be willing to, share a changing room at a pool (for example) with a trans person who hasn’t had surgery. I haven’t been sexually assaulted, but it wouldn’t feel safe to me to see a naked male body in an otherwise empty change room - I think this would be potentially quite upsetting if you had been previously assaulted.

So pronouns, names etc, fine. Women’s safe spaces and gender-protected hiring - I feel we need to slow down and not just shout “bigot” at women who have concerns. I also worry a bit about kids being herded away from being butch women and effeminate boys as I don’t think gender is as binary as is expressed by some trans women. Nor am I convinced that trans are a subset of women - I think they are a subset of males with dysphoria.

Other than what has already been written.
This was a MN post from a while back. Sorry I didn't note down posters name, anyway I liked it:

They are confident not arrogant, assertive not aggressive, responsible, able to deal with consequences of his decisions/choices, honest, reliable, considerate, family is important and he's not afraid to stand up for himself or his loved ones. Also having some class instead of some trash is also appealing.

I like this too: The measure of a real man is how he treats his wife when no one is looking.

Oh how different this thread would have been a few years back. The obvious that has been quoted by many would have been a given.

This thread is hugely comforting.

Lizzie I'm with you on that - not for me really, as a woman in my 40s who looks very much like a woman who has had 3 children... But for my 12 year old daughter.

Though I think fully cubicle changing villages are the way forward, with a member of staff. The staffing is only viable at bigger pools obviously, so not fool proof.

Ours is all cubicles but the showers are single sex.

Vita this thread would have been so different a few years ago! It feels very “post-truth”

Vita I think those are answers to the question: What is a honorable or man or what is a worthy man (as defined by your culture, there is always a cultural thing to it)... but I do think that the man who is completely without any honor is still a man, a respresentative of the male gender. If Elendo has asked how a honorable man behaves: i wouldhave given a very different answer.

Yes, I must admit that I would feel uneasy having to use a change room with a trans man, who still has a penis.

And actually, it’s discussion of the basis behind a change in law which everyone on this thread thinks is patently wrong.

No it isn't. Hrhroyalgala

Nor is it about race. To other peeps.

Keep the peace people.

What defines a man?

A trans man is totally different from a trans woman.

But as transmen are men and transwomen are women, then trans really is non existent now.

And as trans is non existent now (posted too soon) then trans can be taken out of it.

There is no more trans. OK?

BTW I started a thread about the qualities of a honorable man, feel free to post there.

Honestly I think the best definition so far is a man = a person who has at least one Y chromosome... but I am not sure if we can find a definition that transcends all cultures.

Elendon, as I said below, its a conversation, which moves around as conversations do. It’s not like we all suddenly started asking about hotels near Eurodisney, or the job market in Perth. It’s all related.

I’ve started threads that have mutated, it’s just a thing that happens and can’t be policed. I don’t think I’m wrong about that?

You are indeed confused ConfusedWife1234 Bless.

Forget biology because you are a bigot if you include it. Forget cultures, because not only are you a bigot you are now a racist.

Please do not provide a link to your thread about a thread, because it will be reported.

Good luck with the honourable man thread. I can't say it excites me as much as this thread obviously excited you.

Elendon you’ve started the discussion, but you aren’t chairing it - that’s not how message boards work.

But lizzieoak there's going off topic in a friendly, fun way and then there is going off topic.

I'll be the arbiter, not you.