To think Corbyn's maths is wrong again

[Rebeccaslicker]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/28/jeremy-corbyn-announces-labour-will-buy-every-homeless-person/amp/

How is this going to work? Does he mean "give" as in legally transfer or does he mean no rent? How does he think the houses are going to be maintained and utility bills paid? Is it fair on people who've been on waiting lists? Is it really going to reduce the numbers of homeless people if it becomes seen as a quick way to skip the queue?

I got back to my car in an NCP the other night, to find 5 homeless people right next to it with foil and needles. They were also going through some wallets (which may well have been their own; I didn't stop to check of course). The state of them was very sad and although I did feel intimidated at first, I also didn't report them because I thought, where else would they go - it's chucking it down. But then again, no way would they be able to look after a house. They were like zombies.

He's absolutely right to want to do something about the homeless situation. There should be more lots more help. But I don't think this is the answer. AIBU?

I mean I am not only talking about income tax

Well on this thread I haven’t seen any suggestions for reducing homelessness. Just insults about being innumerate etc etc

Which is ironic.

They’re also hit harder because their bosses like to push their wages down because it means more money for them.

I think you can thank the last labour government a lot for this scenario, instead of letting market forces increase wages and going against many of the economists and labour politicians Brown introduced WTC to let businesses off the hook.

People have said it is a lot more nuanced than just tax the rich more, France tried it and had to backtrack only a couple of years ago, JC and momentum are just saying very simplistic populist ideas because they are in opposition, the manifesto was not costed and what was fell apart and became very vague when looked at in detail. He ran on a manifesto that was not going to reverse any of the benefit caps.

Then they have them blaming while they laugh all the way to the bank, because they’ve spun a story about being only on £120k a year and can’t possible afford a reduction in income as it’s only £800 a week.

This is a bit of meme now, but to counter this during the last GE there was many posts on just this forum when "Tax the Rich TM" was to be set at 70K, it wasn't full of Tory supporters complaining, it was many left wing "I will happily pay more tax" posters.

Swings and roundabouts, which I think Rebecca and a few others are trying to point out.

Well on this thread I haven’t seen any suggestions for reducing homelessness. Just insults about being innumerate etc etc

You haven't been looking, many people are saying that just buying up properties to rent out to homeless is not going to solve the issue, its a feel good policy and not much removed from when the last labour government shipped them out to the dilapidated seaside towns.

The issue is far more complex, a lot of the rough sleepers in places such as London are eastern european, we have the right to deport them which is one legal solution but I doubt many people would support that.

It also doesn't offer any long term solutions, its a sticking plaster.

The last labour government maiden the mistake of thinking that they could be both left and right wing in approach.

However they are history. I’ve seen no serious action by the Tories to fix this. None at all, beyond empty words. So it sounds pointless going backwards - we need to look to the future and make things better.

I have little sympathy for those who earn £70k plus because they’re still in a much better position than most people. For the simple reason that they have the ability to make financial choices. A bigger cloth to cut. And not everyone £70k was complaining.

It isn’t swings and roundabouts at all.

The debate should be about how do we make things better for those who cannot get themselves out of a hole when our economic system has placed them there.... instead of bleating about higher taxes on those who can afford them.

But as I said previously, it’s not just about taxes. It’s about giving councils more freedoms, it is about stepping away from the idea that it’s private v public sector. They need each other to succeed. It isn’t about us and them.

You mention rough sleepers - the problem is much much bigger than rough sleepers. That’s the image people have of the homeless but actually it is about people stuck in temporary accommodation. Families etc etc.

This sort of pointless, destructive and alienating idiocy is not going to help JC and the Momentums get elected either.

www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/677740/Winston-Churchill-branded-racist-Blighty-UK-cafe-lefties-storm-London-cafe

Reading slogans from a script as they 'storm' a Churchill themed café. FFS.

There were 77,240 households in temporary accommodation in England in March 2017, an increase of 60% since March 2011. These households included 120,540 children, an increase of 73% from March 2011

This is the homelessness crisis which needs tackling.

Ridiculous.

Locally (I live in a capital city, not London) there are hostel spaces going spare which aren't filled because they don't allow drugs and antisocial behaviour.

Accommodation is being offered but many are choosing to sleep rough out of choice, as they are institutionalised to that way of life and feel lonely and out of place when housed elsewhere. This is the issue, people need more support than just a roof and whilst I appreciate this won't be true for all rough sleepers, it's been suggested as the reason for so many in our town centre. A good documentary was filmed here where some rough sleepers featured discussed this in more detail. I truly sympathise as without support they lack the ability to run a home and must feel lonely when removed from the only support network they have.

He's so far out of touch with reality, had that headline not been on the Telegraph I would have assumed it to be satire

Rough sleepers are a tiny part of the problem.

You don’t see 120k children on the street. They’re in temp accommodation. With no permanent home. That’s the crisis that needs fixing.

I’m not sure what you think is so ridiculous about trying to get affordable homes for families.

It is a thorny issue about where homeless should be housed.

In my town there has been a marked increase in homeless - not "organic" homeless, as it were, but incomers, largely tempted by tourists visiting the Christmas market.

Do they merit a property in this town, ahead of people who are on the housing list but have lived here for years, since birth even? Won't any homeless person with an ounce of wit head for Chelsea?!

Looking at the current opioid problem in the USA, I think that a better priority would be stemming drug use and implementing intense rehabilitation projects rather than imagining that a flat miraculously cures addiction.

The rough sleepers are the tip of the iceburg.

There are thousands of 'hidden homeless'.

Many are sofa surfers, kipping on sofas, blow up beds and spare rooms of friends and acquaintances, but the majority are in bed and breakfast accomodation.

One family in one, maybe two rooms, sharing a bathroom with who knows how many others and being kicked out after breakfast.

They may be able to return to the same B&B that evening or, they could end up going back to the council, to see if they get further accomodation for that evening.

Short term emergency accomodation is being used to put up families who should, by rights, be entitled to something long term.

It's disgusting. It's harmful to children who are going to school not knowing where they'll be sleeping that night, soul destroying for parents who are possibly trying to hold down jobs whilst lugging all their possessions with them and a major con to boot.

Many landlords are demanding top dollar for Dickensian accomodation. Councils are having to pay it because too many people aren't able to get a deposits together for private tenancies, there simply aren't enough council or housing association homes for all who need them or private rents are extortionate.

One couple, both working and both only on the minimum or living wage, will barely be able to keep a roof over their and their family's heads in some parts of the country.

The last labour government maiden the mistake of thinking that they could be both left and right wing in approach.

That might be a clue as to the country(europe) as whole and why after years in the wilderness did Labour win an election, however that's for another day

However they are history. I’ve seen no serious action by the Tories to fix this. None at all, beyond empty words. So it sounds pointless going backwards - we need to look to the future and make things better.

They are history but its still a continuation, you cannot just restart the economy or country when a new party takes office, especially when you have momentum bots posting "Thatcher" on this very thread, it goes both ways. I notice how the last Labour government are history, and yet the current labour opposition are exempt from openly admitting that they would not undo the current benefits cap/reductions, so yes it really is swings and roundabouts.

have little sympathy for those who earn £70k plus because they’re still in a much better position than most people. For the simple reason that they have the ability to make financial choices. A bigger cloth to cut. And not everyone £70k was complaining.

Didn't say that everyone on £70k was complaining, I was merely pointing out that many of the virtue signallers who loudly proclaim that they would be happy to pay more tax suddenly did a complete 180 when it dawned on them they was in the cross hairs, but you should give a shit about those on £70k, because you need there votes to get into power, everyone of every political stripe votes for their own self interests in some degree or another.

The debate should be about how do we make things better for those who cannot get themselves out of a hole when our economic system has placed them there.... instead of bleating about higher taxes on those who can afford them.

And that is the debate, however people have a different view of how those things are achieved.

But the posts asking where funding for x y and z services is going to come from ARE the solution. These are human beings with all their wonderful quirks and foibles we are talking about here. It's a painful truth that many have chosen to be in this situation and many refuse help so could be seen as actively choosing to stay in this situation.

But the notion of free will and poor choices being valid choices doesn't sit well with the leftie help all regardless of if they want it agenda. Throwing houses at the situation won't help.

But the posts asking where funding for x y and z services is going to come from ARE the solution

No they are not the solution. Instead of saying where is the funding going to come from; they should work through how these things will be funded.

Saying no isn’t really a solution. It just ignores the problem. And things continue to get worse.

I haven’t seen anyone right wing give any sensible solution as to how to fix the epic problem we have with housing. Not one. There’s no nope. If we had a general election today, a manifesto which said “don’t tax me” might get votes but it is hardly aspirational.

So, I ask, let’s have some solutions so we can make informed decisions instead of recoiling from the problem and blaming “other people”.

It's a painful truth that many have chosen to be in this situation and many refuse help so could be seen as actively choosing to stay in this situation

Yes, those 120k children made those choices let alone their parents.

Honestly.

The solution is to shore up the support services. Prevention is better than cure and all that.

Won't somebody think of the children! honestly some of those children are probably being kept in situations that are unsafe and should be removed from their parents (drink, drugs, dv) others yes shouldn't be in that situation but are due to the decisions made by their parents and then a small minority are their due to misfortune.

Give more support to prevent this happening - it's cheaper for one!

I'm central voting and my honest thinking is we need to stop pushing people into home ownership. Make social landlords the done way to rent. Standardise rental prices and stop people owning more than one home.

You make the assumption that these people are all suffering from unusual circumstances like drug/drink problems etc but that’s increasingly not the case. It is because they simply can not afford rent. So prevention = affordable housing is a massive part of the solution. Which the Tories fail to deliver on because they can’t bear the idea of not being able to control locally elected councils. All a bit nanny state really.

And how delightful of you to at the idea of helping children.

You cannot possibly fathom the idea that wages aren’t enough to cover housing costs can you? It’s a huge huge problem.

Did you read my second post?

We can't increase wages otherwise the public sector becomes unaffordable so we need to hit housing

It cross posted with mine. I agree about rented accommodation vs home ownership. Re wages - I disagree. Most low paid jobs are actually in the private sector.

Which the Tories fail to deliver on because they can’t bear the idea of not being able to control locally elected councils. All a bit nanny state really.

That is hyperbole, to try and paint the issue of social housing as a Tory issue is nonsense, Nimbyism crosses the political spectrum and many labour councils have been reluctant in the creation of social housing as well.

The Tories could lift the borrowing and use of sales income restrictions which stop councils being able to build new houses. That is the problem. Local councils will then have to deal with nimbysim - but nimbyism isn’t what stops councils building. We all see plenty of flats shootings up by private developers!

The Tories could lift the borrowing and use of sales income restrictions which stop councils being able to build new houses.

The Tories have already given local councils more powers to build more homes, they have also opened the floodgates of treating BTL'ers etc as a future tax resource (which will get ramped up as time goes on), the reason why the majority are private is significantly NIMBYism and that is not down to political leanings.