To just hand over my women's meetup group to a trans member?

[Mallorie]

I run a women-in-[industry] meetup group (it's a traditionally male-dominated industry, but don't want to get more specific than that as this is outing enough as it is). I didn't found the group but took over organisation duties when the founder (a good friend) moved abroad.

It's not closed to men - men have been speakers before, and a handful of men will usually attend to support friends/colleagues or just because the speaker or topic is interesting. However, the point of the group is to offer education and networking opportunities for women in our industry, and to encourage women in adjacent industries or in the early stages of choosing a career to consider joining our industry.

The group has grown by leaps and bounds over the last couple of years so I asked for a volunteer to help me with planning and running the meetups and specifically to help start an annual mini-conference. I see now that my mistake was asking in a public forum rather than approaching a few people personally, because a transgender woman we'll call Alex immediately and rather forcefully volunteered - basically they were like "YES I've got this! I've been waiting for this opportunity, I've got so many great ideas, when can we start?" No one else really volunteered and I didn't feel like I had any choice but to let Alex help. Alex is only recently transitioned and I have known them as a tall, big (rather obnoxious blowhard) male for a few years , Alex looks exactly the same but now wears earrings and patterned blouses. Anyway.

Alex's 'help' started with a bullet-pointed list of all the changes in language we needed to make on the group website and any/all tweets, emails, agendas, and presentations to include all 'self-identifying women and non-binary people', a list of rules for attendees and speakers about inclusive language, and a list of themes for upcoming meetups based around dealing with transgender issues in the workplace. The dates and details of the conference haven't even been discussed yet, but Alex has already written a sort of manifesto about how it's a conference for all self-identifying women and non-binary people. The actual industry education and discussions around the actual work that we do in the industry seems not just secondary now, but completely forgotten - Alex's eyes glaze over when I mention anything concrete, for example the details of an expert in a specific technology who has volunteered to speak at the next meetup.

Alex and a younger contingent of the meetup group are super excited about all of this and have taken over the conversation on social media. No one is saying anything against the new regime, and I don't feel like I can without opening a can of worms that could damage my career - something I can't afford to deal with. So I'm thinking about just handing over the reins to Alex and focusing on my own career.

It breaks my heart because I've made so many good friends in the group, and it has genuinely helped support and improve the working lives of lots of actual women, but the women who I suspect feel the same as me about this new direction are silent - probably like me, they're afraid of the repercussions of speaking out.

I wish I'd never asked for help, and that I'd pushed back with Alex from the start, but I feel like it's too late now.

On the subject of needing help - Have you tried asking people directly rather than asking the group as a whole if anyone can help? What comes to mind is 1. That women have been proven to frequently underestimate their abilities and put themselves up for roles where they think they don't meet criteria (and men frequently overestimate. Funny how your only volunteer is Male, eh?), and 2. That study where it was found that directly asking someone for help in an emergency situation is more likely to result in help than a vague "can anyone help"

• not put themselves up for roles

Do you need to be more specific when asking for help?

Could you make a series of teams and ask for a few volunteers for each...
Venue team, catering team, social media team, etc.
You would then be more of a supervisor.

It sounds like you do a LOT and the thought of getting dragged into something that may take up a lot of time may be putting people off... but if they know they've just got one thing to help out with they may be more willing.

Or maybe that's what you already did and people were still unwilling!

Having a few teams working on things may mean Alex has less influence.

Agree, the key issue is you need more help so focus on getting that. Message potential people directly. Or send around adverts: sell the work as a great thing for the CV; list the posts you want filled (include the time commitment and responsibilities - being specific is helpful: I want 3 hours a month on social media etc). If you are more formal in your request, perhaps it will be considered more deeply.

I am definitely feeling inspired to think about putting my my size 4 converse-clad foot down and making it clear to Alex that I am the one in charge (as I have been successfully running this circus for two years) and if 'she' can't help on my terms, then the platform is there to start any kind of meetup that she wants.

Actually doing this is terrifying though as I am not in any way confrontational AND if Alex takes it the wrong way, I have no doubt that he would be comfortable publicly calling me out for being a TERF. I've seen him complain about TERFs on his social media before. Boring, predictable stuff.

My OH had a great idea earlier for getting help generally - to offer it as a learning volunteer opportunity for students who want to learn about the industry and/or about event production and management. I have a good friend who works in the careers office at a nearby university so I'm going to drop her a message this week.

IT is the sad way things are going, women's spaces are no longer safe anymore. These trans activists such as Alex are very dangerous. You need to fight op, and put your foot down. Suggest to Alex that he stArts another group for trans men and women.

The more I think about this situation, the more annoyed I am on behalf of OP.

We (including me) have given OP suggestions for delicately handling this, but all it really does is pile more work onto her plate. She asked for volunteers because she is doing all the work already, and now she is ALSO required to tip-toe around this person's feelings, and limit his influence without being obvious about it, all the while seeming encouraging and inclusive and grateful for his "help"

What a thankless fucking task.

If anyone else was trying to butt in with their single-issue concerns you could simply remind them it's "not an appropriate focus for this group" and move on. You can't do that with trans because you'll be accused of transphobia and they'll get you ejected from your own group or banned from meet-up etc. They just demand so much special treatment.

OP no wonder you are torn on this - you have a highly successful group. Most meet-ups don't get anywhere near your numbers, especially not long term. You must have put in so much work to get to this point.

Trans women are women.

Nope.

Why does the gender issue matter at all? A new volunteer gets involved in a group and trys to take over and the older members feel like the group is changing...

Like that hasn't happened a million times and in a million places before. Deal with it exactly the same way. They could just had easily been a woman with an issue about DV for example.

The fact you felt the need to link this to the gender issue says everything to me.

Hi Mallory. Well done. I don't have any specific experience but on the language point, a) my understanding is that the transwomen would like everyone to use female pronouns, so that's ok and b) in legal talk using the male includes the female, so you are merely inverting this so that female includes the male.

Good on you for doing such a good job in making in event a success and for trying to continue it. If Alex calls you TERF then, frankly most will not be that bothered, and you can stand by your principles that it is an industry educational conference first and foremost, and that she was diverting away from the founding princple

Whatever else you do, try to cement social relationships that you have already formed. Salvage something from this. Go out for informal meals and drinks with women you have got to know this far, not as part of the networking group but as friends and acquaintances. Make sure you still keep that support and those relationships even if this goes tits up.

@Basecamp1 - that is possibly one of the most disingenuous posts I've ever read

Just start over again, but this time insist that the group is only open to women who were born female. I think your old group will be moving in a different direction. Wish Alex the best of luck and say you will be around to offer advice if needed, but you don't believe a trans-woman has a place running a group like this so you want to start a group more in line with your beliefs.

You will get abuse of course and be called transphobic, but you have to decide whether you want to stick up for your principles and support born-women only.

Be prepared for him to spot that he’s being steered in a particular direction, throw a massive tantrum, then verbally and professionally assassinate you with cries of transphobia. Prepare a suitable defence and watch out for traps.

Sorry not RTT but can't Alex and enthusiastic younger colleague form a womens' rights group while you focus on networking. I am sure a more eloquent Mumsnetter than I can find the right wording to sell this to Alex as a wonderful honour and opportunity.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - there isn't a single younger colleague, rather a younger contingent of women who along with Alex are super excited about inclusivity in our industry, specifically around LGBTQIA with a big emphasis on the T and the Q. He recently posted on social media about his volunteering for my meetup, saying he was committed to making the industry better for ALL women and he got lots of favourites and retweets. I don't want to put the exact text of the tweet I posted as it would be easily searchable, but I replied from the meetup twitter account to say something noncommital like "diversity can only make us stronger and we're excited to see your ideas".

I wouldn't say this younger contingent are my core meetup audience but a few of them definitely attend regularly. I think if Alex decided that I was transphobic I think they would support him and amplify any social media fallout.

My first instinct was ‘bail’ - this round be the safe and easy option.

However - you could take a pragmatic approach to this.

Do you think you could have a conversation with Alex about this? The fact is that his new status is very exciting for him - like finding religion - and he will be keen to speak the Good News.

Could you suggest that he gives a talk on inclusivity and diversity and ways of improving and supporting this within your industry?

Emphasise that is about work and that you trust your fellow professionals to behave in a respectful and professional manner throughout. You expect them to apply the same rules they follow at work as to how they conduct themselves within the group.

Then move on - focus the work on who is coming to speak and organising that. This is what this group is for.

Best of luck - I really don’t envy you. And it’s such a shame.

They could just had easily been a woman with an issue about DV for example.

This group is about learning and networking within an industry nit about people’s personal lives however difficult they are. That’s the whole point.

The thing is, if he has a very different agenda to the one that your group has had for the past two years I think you have a very valid reason to encourage him to start his own group - as others have already suggested. If he's so full of ideas and has a clear agenda of his own it makes sense for him to start another group based on that. It's hardly fair to take over your group which has a clear - and different - agenda to the one he's pushing. But you're wise to be careful of how you handle this as he's clearly very pushy, media savvy and eager to advance his own agenda (that of a man wearing earrings and a flowery blouse )

Sorry - mistakenly misgendered Alex. ( would prob be banned from group immediately )

I was part of an organising group that a man tried to take over. He wasn't trans (then. It wouldn't surprise me if I bumped into him in a dress though, he's the type) but thought the group should centre his agenda despite having no skills or experience to contribute and an annoying habit of talking over people.

I just gave him his own thing to organise, which he royally fucked up because he had zero interest in doing any actual work. He tried to blame on me but I had laid the groundwork by constantly introducing it as "JohnnyBigBollocks event that he is organising all on his ownsome - isn't he marvellous". He did flounce and created a bit of noise, but most people saw through it.

You need to give him as much string as he needs to hang himself and then back away. Trust that others can see what is going on even if you never explicitly say it. Once this guy flounced, I was inundated with other people telling me what a bellend he had been to them, even though some had seemingly championed him at the time.

Just an observation. The overwhelming responses are examples of how thoughtful, nice and tread carefully women are socialised to be while Alex can, apparently, clump all over the stage in their size 10s with impunity and without a care for the real purpose of the group.

Women deferring to men - again.

Personally, if I had had no one in that group willing to volunteer apart from Alex - who clearly sees it as a one person crusade for TIMs - I'd cut my loses and leave them to their fiefdom.

I would sit back and let it implode. Alex can be left with his handmaidens while those for whom his niche interests are boring or useless will drift away. Then start up a group that works as it was always intended.

But I admit, I'm far too old to pander to these twerps and the only time I had a massive ethical problem at work I walked away and started up on my own.

Sorry Dick - hadn't seen your post when I posted - YY to your views too.

"I think if Alex decided that I was transphobic I think they would support him and amplify any social media fallout."

I mean, the bit where you keep calling Alex "him" isn't a great start.

Get it back on track to focus on the work aspect asap, and let Alex arrange some kind of sub group for trans support if necessary? Basically tell Alex do DO ONE!
If there are not many trans specific issues around your work environment, then it DOES not need to be the focus. Or let Alex run a trans awareness talk, people have the option to go or not.
I have had similar issues in a LGBT group with a couple of trans members wanting a focus on them, having a separate trans forum etc. and said yes of course, but you have to organise it and it's not the focus of our next event because x, y and z is more relevant for everyone. They did their thing on the side.