To just hand over my women's meetup group to a trans member?

[Mallorie]

I run a women-in-[industry] meetup group (it's a traditionally male-dominated industry, but don't want to get more specific than that as this is outing enough as it is). I didn't found the group but took over organisation duties when the founder (a good friend) moved abroad.

It's not closed to men - men have been speakers before, and a handful of men will usually attend to support friends/colleagues or just because the speaker or topic is interesting. However, the point of the group is to offer education and networking opportunities for women in our industry, and to encourage women in adjacent industries or in the early stages of choosing a career to consider joining our industry.

The group has grown by leaps and bounds over the last couple of years so I asked for a volunteer to help me with planning and running the meetups and specifically to help start an annual mini-conference. I see now that my mistake was asking in a public forum rather than approaching a few people personally, because a transgender woman we'll call Alex immediately and rather forcefully volunteered - basically they were like "YES I've got this! I've been waiting for this opportunity, I've got so many great ideas, when can we start?" No one else really volunteered and I didn't feel like I had any choice but to let Alex help. Alex is only recently transitioned and I have known them as a tall, big (rather obnoxious blowhard) male for a few years , Alex looks exactly the same but now wears earrings and patterned blouses. Anyway.

Alex's 'help' started with a bullet-pointed list of all the changes in language we needed to make on the group website and any/all tweets, emails, agendas, and presentations to include all 'self-identifying women and non-binary people', a list of rules for attendees and speakers about inclusive language, and a list of themes for upcoming meetups based around dealing with transgender issues in the workplace. The dates and details of the conference haven't even been discussed yet, but Alex has already written a sort of manifesto about how it's a conference for all self-identifying women and non-binary people. The actual industry education and discussions around the actual work that we do in the industry seems not just secondary now, but completely forgotten - Alex's eyes glaze over when I mention anything concrete, for example the details of an expert in a specific technology who has volunteered to speak at the next meetup.

Alex and a younger contingent of the meetup group are super excited about all of this and have taken over the conversation on social media. No one is saying anything against the new regime, and I don't feel like I can without opening a can of worms that could damage my career - something I can't afford to deal with. So I'm thinking about just handing over the reins to Alex and focusing on my own career.

It breaks my heart because I've made so many good friends in the group, and it has genuinely helped support and improve the working lives of lots of actual women, but the women who I suspect feel the same as me about this new direction are silent - probably like me, they're afraid of the repercussions of speaking out.

I wish I'd never asked for help, and that I'd pushed back with Alex from the start, but I feel like it's too late now.

Going back to OP's issue, I guess it depends on whether you've got the hide of a rhinoceros or not. If you have, I suggest going for the route of "brilliant. The main themes of the conference have already been decided on. But it would be great to add a session on inclusivity - not just trans, but LGB, racial equality, cultural issues. Please organise that"

Then when Alex says "the whole conference should be about T" just say "I hear your opinion, but we've already agreed it should be mainly about..." And rinse and repeat. Just sideline and stonewall him over and over again.

But it will take ovaries of steel to pull it off. You have to be prepared to make conciliatory but meaningless noises over and over again without ever letting slip anything he can twist and use against you. And keep saying "the main theme is ..." which unfortunately you will need to organise by yourself.

Personally, I'm not sure I could cope with that level of stress.

Please forgive my ignorance, but at what stage does a bloke become a "transwoman"? Is it the day they put a bit of lippy on for the first time or, to put it crudely, the day they have their knob, er, dealt with?

Doesn't he need to set up a separate meet-up group for trans-women in industry? I'd be pretty pissed off if a helpful and resourceful group I belonged to became a trans-rights group instead at the insistence of one individual - and I wouldn't care if they were trans or not. It's not remotely relevant at the end of the day. I think you need to focus on all the other members who have found a supportive and helpful platform, not just one member.

what will you do, op?

It's a feeling, right. No lipstick or surgery needed.

But it will take ovaries of steel to pull it off. You have to be prepared to make conciliatory but meaningless noises over and over again without ever letting slip anything he can twist and use against you. And keep saying "the main theme is ..." which unfortunately you will need to organise by yourself

Personally I'd also want to be pretty damn certain that Alex didn't have a suite of handmaidens following them.

Charlotte these days it's when they say the magic words "I identify as a woman." Jeremy Corbyn just confirmed this as official Labour policy on the Andrew Marr show.

They don't even have to bother with the lippy any more.

Bail. You can't win here.
Sometimes life just isn't fair.
Leave the group altogether and then start a new group of your own next year.

Please forgive my ignorance, but at what stage does a bloke become a "transwoman"? Is it the day they put a bit of lippy on for the first time or, to put it crudely, the day they have their knob, er, dealt with

I have a nasty feeling that this thread might be one of those that vanishes into a puff of thin air ... so to answer this, most transwomen don't have their knobs dealt with.

No Balsamicbarbara transwomen are not women

You aren't ignorant @DontCallMeCharlotte. It's a question that most people (including Labour and the Torys) seem to have difficulty answering.

Some people truly believe that you are a woman as soon as you put on the lady costume.

Balsamicbarbara
In what way are trans women women?
I keep asking and nobody can tell me

It really depends on whether you have the physical and emotional energy to constantly have to restate your groups aims and objectives, and that yes trans issues are a (tiny) part of that but absolutely not the groups main focus. And if Alex wants a trans group they’re welcome to set one up but yours is a women’s group with the focus on issues that affect all women not just trans women. Just as while you can recognise issues about race, disability, lgb, social class etc they’re not the main focus of a women’s group.

If you do have that energy that’s great. But it’s understandable if you don’t. I know I wouldn’t. I’d probably just drop out and hope let the group implode.

Either do as a PP said and let him loose with a subgroup, or let him have it and set up a XX in [industry] group with a focus on biology as the root of issues

Many thanks for your replies. I might be able to form a more informed opinion now...

Please forgive my ignorance, but at what stage does a bloke become a "transwoman"? Is it the day they put a bit of lippy on for the first time or, to put it crudely, the day they have their knob, er, dealt with

I think many people have (or used to have) a mental image of a transwoman, and that transwoman usually has had a few 'ops'. This is what I personally class as a 'transwoman' and is what I call myself.

These days literally anyone can not only become a transwoman, but now can even become an honest to god, woman, as good as a biological one apparently, just by saying they 'identify' as one

Trans women are not women

As Alex has shown he is still a man.

Trans works both ways though, doesn't it? To be truly trans-inclusive Alex should also be addressing the issues of women-transitioning-to-men, so that strengthens the argument that Alex should set up a separate trans-in-industry group.

No, @balsamicbarbara they fucking well are not. They are Trans. They are not Women.

You need to take charge here. Basically what is happening is exactly what would happen if a man entered an all women group. Who'd have thunk it?

Anyway. Next meeting, go in with a strict agenda. Any straying from the agenda and firmly say 'Alex, we are digressing here, can we bring this up in AOB?'

Re the conference. Define roles for organising and put your allies in the key roles. Communications, organisation, venue, logistics. As someone said above, Alex can be diversity officer.

You can perhaps meet with your allies as core organisers separately which may also give you opportunity to discuss the 'Alex' issue and plan for the future and if necessary a breakaway group (one which is strictly by invitation only).

You need to firmly manage Alex and steer it back to the agenda. If he takes over AOB with a monologue you can use techniques like interrupting with 'And in your role as inclusivity officer, how are you intending to market and appeal to our BAME cohort who are severely underrepresented.', perhaps you could convene a sub group to discuss inclusivity in more detail', or 'Yes, we're running short on time here, any other business' or my favourite 'that's about time to wind this one up'. Get an ally who is firm to do the minutes and prime them to help you bring it back to the agenda and pointedly stop minuting the irrelevant times which go off topic.

If you have some really close allies you could prime them to leave during an AOB monologue with, 'Sorry, very busy, I have to get to another meeting/get on with other work/die slowly in a corner.'

I have used this technique with various people who dominate meetings for pet gripes and irrelevances (not just trans) and usually find it quite effective.

@JaneEyre70 what you've said mirrors the concerns of the op.....she doesn't want to alienate the core group - but Alex is attempting to hijack the group.

I can see the usual bun-fight about transwomen has started and the op has not returned.

I can see the usual bun-fight about transwomen has started and the op has not returned

Mmmmmmm I was wondering about the OP, but you never know, she may be icing a cake.

Meanwhile, this thread does contain some excellent advice for women in case they or their groups are infiltrated by a trans trojan horse. I know this happens because it has happened to me under different circumstances and he didn't even bother with the flowered blouse.

Referring to the discussion around transgender identity as a bun fight minimises the importance of actually discussing the issue and stops facts being shared.