To just hand over my women's meetup group to a trans member?

[Mallorie]

I run a women-in-[industry] meetup group (it's a traditionally male-dominated industry, but don't want to get more specific than that as this is outing enough as it is). I didn't found the group but took over organisation duties when the founder (a good friend) moved abroad.

It's not closed to men - men have been speakers before, and a handful of men will usually attend to support friends/colleagues or just because the speaker or topic is interesting. However, the point of the group is to offer education and networking opportunities for women in our industry, and to encourage women in adjacent industries or in the early stages of choosing a career to consider joining our industry.

The group has grown by leaps and bounds over the last couple of years so I asked for a volunteer to help me with planning and running the meetups and specifically to help start an annual mini-conference. I see now that my mistake was asking in a public forum rather than approaching a few people personally, because a transgender woman we'll call Alex immediately and rather forcefully volunteered - basically they were like "YES I've got this! I've been waiting for this opportunity, I've got so many great ideas, when can we start?" No one else really volunteered and I didn't feel like I had any choice but to let Alex help. Alex is only recently transitioned and I have known them as a tall, big (rather obnoxious blowhard) male for a few years , Alex looks exactly the same but now wears earrings and patterned blouses. Anyway.

Alex's 'help' started with a bullet-pointed list of all the changes in language we needed to make on the group website and any/all tweets, emails, agendas, and presentations to include all 'self-identifying women and non-binary people', a list of rules for attendees and speakers about inclusive language, and a list of themes for upcoming meetups based around dealing with transgender issues in the workplace. The dates and details of the conference haven't even been discussed yet, but Alex has already written a sort of manifesto about how it's a conference for all self-identifying women and non-binary people. The actual industry education and discussions around the actual work that we do in the industry seems not just secondary now, but completely forgotten - Alex's eyes glaze over when I mention anything concrete, for example the details of an expert in a specific technology who has volunteered to speak at the next meetup.

Alex and a younger contingent of the meetup group are super excited about all of this and have taken over the conversation on social media. No one is saying anything against the new regime, and I don't feel like I can without opening a can of worms that could damage my career - something I can't afford to deal with. So I'm thinking about just handing over the reins to Alex and focusing on my own career.

It breaks my heart because I've made so many good friends in the group, and it has genuinely helped support and improve the working lives of lots of actual women, but the women who I suspect feel the same as me about this new direction are silent - probably like me, they're afraid of the repercussions of speaking out.

I wish I'd never asked for help, and that I'd pushed back with Alex from the start, but I feel like it's too late now.

[QuackPorridgeBacon]

I would say what nansio has suggested. But I do not work so cannot understand how difficult it must be in the workplace to say what you feel. Unless of course you are trans.

[nandio]

OP, how about this for a solution?

"Alex, on reflection, I run this group for women, NOT transwomen. Women and transwomen have different hurdles to overcome in our workplace. I will no longer be needing your help with the organisation that I run and I wish you the best of luck with setting up your own events etc. Do let me know if I can be of any help to you in the future."

[PramWanker]

Yell special snowflake at my back all you like, be as petty as you want, I’m tired of being kind and having it thrown back in my face.

When were you kind?

[rookiemere]

Women (and probably to an extent men) keep quiet about this at work because they don't want to lose their jobs or promotion prospects.

Our organisation has a very strong trans agenda, mostly led by one or two influential transwomen.

I have to sit on my hands often to stop myself typing anything internally when guff is spouted that putting children on hormone blockers is totally harmless, oh and women themselves saying that we shouldn't measure the pay gap between males and females because it just isn't relevant any more.

I'm glad I sat on my hands because one of those influential transwomen are now head of my area. By all accounts she is very good at her job so it's great she got the position, but as a middle aged woman who would like to at least maintain her current role for a few more years, I don't think opening myself to the accusation of TERF would be a good career move.

We've got a half hour lecture lunch session about what is gender on Wednesday. I'm not sure if I should attend in case I can't stop myself saying something non-approved.

[Crocodilesoup]

Olive, you wrote And I’m tired of having slurs yelled at me and being beaten up for it
Who beats up transwomen? Men. This is not a women thing. Why direct anger against women who have little power over you instead of men, the ones who will never actually accept you as being a woman?

[Lovelyusername]

Op what’s your plan?

[Ereshkigal]

Your point, Battle?

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Talk talk talk but if any real world person accuses you of transphobia just dive back under the rock

Given the power of this small group, many of us are quite reasonably concerned that we'd lose our jobs if we 'spoke up'.

I really wish that 'misogynist' or even 'discriminatory against women' held so much power as accusations. I've seen women really hounded, bullied, ridiculed, patronised, marginalised and otherwise discriminated against in my long time in the workforce but we are pretty much told it's all in our heads or to put up with it or not to complain because we will be blamed or it will get worse. Funny how it's different for trans people ...

[InionEile]

I love missymayhem's suggestion to follow the 'transwomen are women' mantra and treat this newcomer as the woman that she demands to be: talk over her, assign her shitwork and patronize her. Make sure you also get her to do all the gruntwork for the conference but take all the credit yourself. If she complains, say 'welcome to the 'sisterhood of women, Alex!'.

Olive's post exemplifies exactly the wooly thinking and fuzzy logic that I come to MN to escape from on all the other feminist boards I know of.

Oooh ladies, you're such a powerful sisterhood, ooh think of the horrors suffered by your trans-sisters (who have enjoyed male privilege their entire lives up until the day they put on a pair of heels and lipstick but whatevs), ooh, all the feelz, womanhood is a sense of being, an emotion, a wavy cloud of pink hazy goo...

Please spare us the patronizing, mansplaining / nonbinary-splaining nonsense. I am a person and live my life every day as a person. My biology, however, means that I am a woman subject to all of the physical reality that entails - pregnancy or risk of pregnancy, threat of rape, being physically weaker than half of adult society, being prone to diseases of my female biology. That and the lived experience of that reality is what defines me as a 'woman'. Other than that, I am just a person, same as you.

It kills me that feminists have fought so hard and long to have women recognized as people, as fully equal human beings with equal agency only to have delusional TIMs waltz in wearing dresses and make-up telling the world that being a woman is about a feeling in your mind and pink and glitter and make-up and heels.

It's ridiculous. TIMs literally mansplaining womanhood to biologically born women...

[OtterInDisgrace]

Was that donut for me?

[BattleCuntGalactica]

[OtterInDisgrace]

I can’t really add anything that hasn’t already been said by the actual* women on this thread other than ARGHHHHHHH.

We’re fucked, aren’t we?

• and yes by that I DO mean biological women. Sorry - actually, no I’m not sorry - if that pisses anyone off.

[Nibblertron]

I know it’s scary, you are part of the most powerful force on the planet - the sisterhood of women

Olive, I think you’ve confused reality with this...

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

Olive out of interest, what makes you non-binary, rather than just pissed off at society for constantly telling you your interests and personality should fit into a narrow range of pink or blue boxes?

Because (like most young people) they think they are the first people this has ever happened to and deserve a special label to show just how much clevererer than all the old people they are.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

You’re afraid and that’s reasonable

Women being afraid of men is reasonable, I agree.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

Talk talk talk but if any real world person accuses you of transphobia just dive back under the rock.

Yes. Because people kind of need to keep their jobs and keep a roof over their children's heads and put food in their mouths and protect them from violence.

And in case you haven't noticed, if you go against the TRA agenda in public, TRAs tend to try anc stop you doing those things....

[AskBasil]

"Olive are you perhaps confusing women with the US military ? "

[StrangeLookingParasite]

virtue vultures

Oh I love this. So accurate.

[StrangeLookingParasite]

Trans women are women. I know people get angry when people say that and I can see why. You’re afraid and that’s reasonable.

What delightful condescension. :/ I am not afraid, petal.

I would also very likely be classified as 'non-binary', were I to subscribe to this self-obsessed navel gazing.

[incorruptibledream]

I used to think MN was transphobic. After months of reading I have realised it isn't, however as a whole it does come across as taking a very narrow view of trans issues. It's repetitive obsession with asking posters to define 'woman' and defy biology make many users appear terrified of trans issues.

It also seems sad that despite the positive influence MN has on protecting women's rights that a large proportion of your responses are simply to 'walk away' from the group Alex has joined. 'Feign a dying relative' even. So is that the deal? Talk talk talk but if any real world person accuses you of transphobia just dive back under the rock.

Although I support a lot of what has been said I am still glad the real world does not reflect MN women.

[FizzyGreenWater]

PidgeonPodge please stick around. We need more of your sort on here.

[MakeMisogynyAHateCrime]

MALE
That is terrific.

[PidgeonPodge]

I'll just leave this here Dodo

Men Against Liberty and Equality

[PidgeonPodge]

WHY oh why is mumsnet SO repellently transphobic?

I'm a transwoman an have so far encountered absolute ZERO transphobia on mumsnet.

I have on the other hand encountered a number of different virtue vultures who scream 'transphobia' and not much else at any thread with the word 'trans' in it, who refuse to actually engage in any real debate and refuse to listen to anyone (including me, because apparently I'm too much of an old school transsexual - you know, the kind who understands reality)

[DodoPatrol]

'Transwomen are the men who have suffered night and day wishing and praying that they could be “normal” feeling unbearably uncomfortable in their own skin' is, I think, the definition that the various decent transwomen on here seem to be using.

There are some truly lovely transwomen on here, Olive (well, they certainly come across that way anyway -- possibly they all go home to eat kittens), and all of them seem to be saying quite clearly that although they are male, they need to identify as transwomen for their own comfort. TransHobbit, who is female and identifies as a transman, says much the same in reverse. I half-understand what they are getting at, I respect their need, and enjoy hearing their point of view.

Plus, @PidgeonPodge has just come up with a splendiferous acronym for the Alexes of this world on another thread. Shall I give her a shout?