School want a letter of apology

[GlassesOn]

My year six son got picked for his schools football team, the team train one day a week and sometimes have matches on those days too. (We all pay £30 per term).

The football coach is quite young, a bit impatient, never speaks to the parents, even after a match, quite dismissive when the boys try to talk to him and I’ve seen him mostly on his phone during training pausing to look up to comment how rubbish they’re are playing is one example.

There have been a few incidents that I haven’t been completely happy with and I told my son I didn’t want him to go back to the team after Christmas but he said he wanted to stay on the team because he had friends in the team etc

First day of January training my husband turns up to pick our son up at the Astro turf pitch (in the school) but no one was there... my husband was confused and went round the school to find them, as no notice had been given to us that training would be held in another place.

After 5 minutes, he found our son in the after school ‘kids club’ because training had finished early (for no reason we’ve heard yet,) he was placed in there as he wasn’t allowed to hang around on his own to wait for his dad, we were told we were being charged £10 for this.

My husband explained to the kids club manager about the training finishing early and if the training had finished at the advertised time on their website then our son wouldn’t have been put into kids club, she agreed to leave off the charge.

Last week my eldest picked her brother up and was told no training had taken place at all, as during the warm up some of the boys were laughing and joking and as punishment they had all been placed on benches in the playground and sat there for over an hour.

My daughter said my son was freezing cold and I phoned the kids club to clarify what had gone on as I was still at work.

I was advised to email a complaint as she wasn’t in charge of the after school clubs, just the kids club which I did.

I received a phone call the next afternoon while at work and got a barrage of attitude by the after school clubs manager, she told me she had investigated the incident throughly that the coach said the kids were acting like animals and put them on the bench until they were ready, I told her I would accept what you’re saying until I’ve spoken to my son again when I got home and if this was the case why didn’t he make them all run around or do some sort of physical exercise as their ‘punishment’? That’s what his old coach used to do if one of them played up, (run around the pitch 3 times etc as that soon made them calm down.“)

It was near freezing that evening and if I stuck my son in the garden for an hour and a half to sit on a bench as punishment I’m sure social services would be called by the school.

I then asked about the previous incident of the coach just packing up whenever he feel like it and she said reconsidering it now she would be charging us £10 for that, as my son wasn’t signed out until 4.50pm even though it took 5 mins for my husband to find where our son was as no note had been left to say training had finished early or moved to another area, but she didn’t want to discuss that.

The head teacher also pulled all the children into her office and told them that they are lying about the incident and it hadn’t been just giggling and that the coach said that they were really naughty.

They have been instructed to write a apology letter to the coach, they also miss their playtime on Monday and are barred from playing on the Astro turf pitch for the rest of term.

So even though all of them say it was just a bit of giggling they are being punished for weeks on end and that’s (after the original punishment of sitting in the cold) & missing their training. Oh and they’ve also being threatened by the head teacher that their year 6 PGL place may be taken away from them (we’ve paid nearly £400 for the trip).

It’s basically the boys word against the coach and the head teacher has decided that the kids are lying.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the two incidents? I’ve told my son he isn’t going back to training but this time he is also okay with it.

Or should I just let it drop? WWYD?

I think we're derailing the thread and I'm getting quite upset by this so will stop watching/responding.

OP, I hope you get to the bottom of this.

Glad you've got a plan sorted op. Abuse is a big word to throw around though I notice it's not the op suggesting her child was abused hopefully the head sorts it out. As if a lado is appropriate

Did they do the detention yesterday?

It's sad to see people taking some general comments and extrapolating them (and putting words in mouths) to allege people will automatically take the side of a child, or the side of an adult. Worse still to use hugely emotive language and examples such as 'child abuse' 'Jimmy Savile' etc.

Can't we keep at least some perspective here?
Of course abuse need not be extreme in nature, there's a scale... but if we take a step backwards, and accept that the description of events might be a little prone to error or exaggeration (that's not saying it IS, just accepting it MAY be), then I would have thought the situation could be resolved fairly amicably between parent, child, school and coach, and that's what the OP seems to have set out to do. It's many of the posters here forming a bit of a lynch mob over a school they know nothing of, a coach they know nothing of, a children they know nothing of, over a set of events as described by someone they know nothing of.

We can still be supportive of the op by saying 'you're not crazy to have concerns about what's happened, and you're right to want to get more details from those concerned'

Erm I'm not sure what quite happened here as I haven't read every recent post but to answer a pp~ yes they did do detention yesterday and had to write lines describing their behaviour during it.
So my son just kept writing 'I was giggling and laughing during football coaching' over and over again. Which was accepted by the teacher in charge.

My son still hasn't made any changes to his version of events, no sudden 'remembering' of something else they all did or said.

I've got a meeting with the HT tomorrow at 1.30pm with a list of concerns that I would like cleared up.

I could just let it drop, he has done the detention now and written the 'apology letter' I've withdrawn him from the team etc but there is still something is niggling me regarding the reaction by the HT after a few of us complained about Thursday. It's so OTT & slightly mad.

I may get in the meeting tomorrow and find out that they were all trying to kill each other during lesson but then I still have the question why didn't the coach contact us or end the lesson and take them into the hall rather than keeping out in the cold for over an hour?

I'm just about it all. I also want to know if the threat of banning them from attending their year 6 journey still stands as that's just nuts. They didn't tie the man up and mug him as far as I know we shall see tomorrow...

Thank you for your support.

Yes thank you pengggwn that's what I intend to do. I've been told there is cctv in the playground which would be good if they have evidence of the kids acting like animals (giggling and laughing doesn't quite make them animals in my opinion, hyenas maybe?)

but I'm asking for his side first and foremost.

Yes please OP, do go to the meeting and make sure your DS is there too. Ask about anything that concerns you and you have mentioned here.

I remember a teacher lying to me about trying to call me to get my signature for a trip permission (the had lost the original) and when I told her that I DO have a mobile she was making it out as if she was calling until 9:30. I replied that NO, last call was 9:05 which I saw too late on the landline. She felt momentarilly embarassed but then tried to blame DS for this with stern and unnerving talk and glares because DS should have given my mobile (school has it) in order to cover her faults for DS not having attended the trip. I set her politely straight.

The thing is, it has taken me many years to learn that I can actually answer back and how to do it effectively and I would have been totally useless at DS's age and some people, including teachers do take advantage of this in order to promote their version of the story.

Have you asked the school for evidemce of the coach's credentials? It sounds like he is a poor choice for the school and he is taking the piss but covering his own back. I would also check that he has no personal relationship with staff member as their protection of him is a tad OTT. At the end of the day, although your son is officially in their care whilst at the club, you are paying for the lesspns so you are a client and have a right to question the coach's effectiveness. If they do pull the boys out of the school trip you could go over the head's head and speak to the LEA.

Were they definitely sat in the cold for over an hour? I suppose they would be able to check that on the cctv if there was a dispute over it.

Do they also have CCTV showing how the previous coach handle such incidents or if they escalated to such an extent? The thing is if he is on his mobile the children will notice this and act accordingly. And in any case all they need is a joke to escalate. Some teachers can handle this, others can't. Some teachers don't want to take any risks so keep a very close eye and don't allow any talk. Maybe he is not that experienced? Also some teachers scream their lungs out and still get no respect and others only need to raise an eyebrow and behaviour is brilliant.

pengggwn You know I’ve given this a lot of thought over the last few days.

To ever describe a child in my care as an 'animal' I would say shouting, screaming, swearing, spitting, walking off or running off while being disciplined, destroying equipment, hurting other children or adults, using hand gestures to say fuck off and so on.

My kids sometimes don’t listen to me, or they answer back or they argue about getting their homework completed, or they giggle and laugh when I’m getting cross, it happens.
It doesn’t happen every day or every week but it does happen...shit happens.

I don’t fly off the handle, I calmly and icily tell them off and take away privileges such as screen time. I don’t describe them as animals or cancel holidays and punish them over and over again for the same offence.

If I’m wrong (and let’s face it I could be, I don’t know yet) and if my son did do any of the bad behaviour I described above, then he is in so much shit you can’t believe. (Ban screen time for life maybe?) but deep down I know that this has been handled so very wrong from the beginning and I intend to get that looked at.

That’s all. Teachers are humans too, thank god. They make snap judgments wrong sometimes and some yes, do have to cover their poor actions with passing the blame onto to the children. That’s all I want to find out. Does the punishments fit the ‘crime’.

That’s all.

Sorry I haven't read everything previously but from what you've described the sitting outside and continuing punishment is inappropriate.
If you want to really get the HT attention you could say that you (and other parents?) are considering contacting MASH (Multi-Agency Safeguarding Hub) as you consider the children were vulnerable individuals when left in the care of an incapable adult who punished them in a cruel and overzealous manner. The weather was far too cold for them to have been made to sit in for that amount of time.

There's no harm is continuing to get clarification on events.
If the coach's account stacks up and they ended up being in the cold for 15 minutes, then you can easily hold your hands up and say 'ok, no problem, I just wanted to be sure and then do as you see fit with your son if he's exaggerated a step too far this time.
If it turns out the coach was the one exaggerating, then the school needs to look into if this is the type of coach they want at the school, or indeed at any school.

They might also want to remind all staff and parents of the correct procedures for after school activities / collections / notification of changes of plan etc, as it seems at least on these occasions, it didn't work as well as it should (if at all!)

I'm a teacher. If I found out someone had done this to a child in my care/that I teach I would be expected to report this. If it was decided that nothing wrong was done I would not be in trouble as I was simply following procedure. If I was found to be correct and others had knowingly ignored the situation they would be asked to explain their inaction and potentially reprimanded for it.
It does not matter how the boys were behaving! I cannot stress that enough. The punishment was not appropriate given the cold weather.

It sounds like you are approaching this sensibly and with an open mind op

Okay this is what you asked
Out of interest, what sort of behaviour would you accept does justify cancelling the trip? Because, clearly, 'like animals' doesn't mean they were eating raw meat and licking their hind quarters. It will mean something more than standard laughing, so where do you draw the line?

And it didn't say what anything about what the coach would draw the line at?

But to answer you...

Well my son had been attending these lessons for over a year.

He was picked last year after trials last September.

During these times either I or my husband or our daughter have been there for pick up, (I have it made it there this term though.)

No behaviour issues have been raised once in this time. The coach is supposed to do the handover so plenty of time for issues to be made aware of.

But not once has anything been raised..if there has been consistent bad behaviour, laughing, mucking around etc then I could understand why the coach would 'snap' and why the school would take such a hard line and dish out the extra punishments. That's where I would support the school in threats to take away the PGL trip.

I hope that clears that up. I must do some work now and I'll pop in later.

Correction: I havent made it there this term not have

Pengggwn - as a teacher (and I do not subscibe to the view that you are not, I find those posts vile) where would you draw that line yourself?

For background - I am a parent of primary age children (age 8 and 5) so havent reached this stage yet as a parent. Our school is a small village one where parental involvement is strong and teachers are available to speak to in the playground at the end of every day and any time I've needed to speak with the HT I've been able to that same day - obviously in bigger and senior schools this will be a very different set-up. Our school has various clubs all run by parent volunteers (PVG'd of course) and the behaviour policy we have is sent home each year and is reiterated regularly in the termly newsletters. All the kids have to sign that policy - parents are asked to go through it with the younger ones who cant read and both parents and children sign (or mark in the case of younger ones) the policy.

Perhaps i too am guilty of minimising. I try very hard and have a good relationship with the school as I do accept that whilst I believe what my child tells me she may not have the full context and her perspective of an incident will quite possibly be different to another. The role of teachers, and parents, is to look at all the evidence and decide on balance what is likely to have actually happened. But I have got to think that to lose out on a school trip you would have to done somthing more than be a bit cheeky?

I'd be expecting that for repeated disruption - over the course of the term, not once a week for a couple of weeks, to classes/clubs; bullying of other children; unacceptable cheek or rudeness to staff - we heard of one child calling the teacher an idiot after getting a telling off for writing on the table - that to me is a line well and truly crossed at age 8. But would I expect a week long trip to be cancelled, poss not. Especially if the parents lose out on £400 already paid....

I remember being in trouble myself once at school - caught being off premises because my friend needed to go to chemist for tampons and we werent allowed out at lunch time (age 15). I had never been in trouble and I giggled in the heads office as we were getting a grilling and not wanting to reveal why we had been out of school. Nerves completely got the better of me and I laughed / giggled and of course that enraged him more because we wouldnt tell we were out and I had the audacity to giggle/laugh. It was allI could do not tp pee my pants I was so bloody scared to be in the heads office!!! It was a nervous release and I cant help but think 'well this awkward' is just a way of doing the same, of releasing tension and trying to diffuse a situation the best way you know how at age 10/11?

It sounds to me like OP is handling it well and I hope their is a satisfactory outcome for all involved.

Pen you are the epitome of what’s wrong with teachers.