To ask why little girls seem to be preferred?

[foxtaildream]

Is it just me who has noticed this?

Yes have two DDs and have to admit I only wanted two DDs. I did have a lot of people assume that DH wanted a son. He didn't, he wanted two DDs as well.

I think for me, growing up, I was closer to my Mum, we shared interests and days out, whilst my dad did that with my brother. So Dad and bro would go off to a different town for a football / speedway match together whilst Mum and I went shopping, cinema etc... To this day, now in our 40s my bro still goes to watch matches with my dad whilst I have spa and shopping days with my my Mum. Just now my children come along too! I guess I wanted to replicate that with my children.

As my DDs got into their hobbies (dancing and gymnastics), I found that it was me who would take them away to the competitions (to watch or perform) and I go with the other mums, we socialise together whilst the children dance / do gym. It's what my children and I do together. We also have regular shopping days with my children and my mum... get a hotel, stay somewhere over night or just for the day.

Eldest is a teen now, and it's lovely that she does enjoy doing those things with me. Last holiday we went off for a spa together (her request), and I'm booking another one for DD, Mum and myself for Mothering Sunday. DD2 is not old enough to go yet, but she's desperate to come along too. I do feel sorry for DH sometimes, because there's lots that I do with the DDs, and he doesn't have a son to go off and do things with. And he's just not interested in shopping / spa / dancing / gym like the girls and I are. He tolerates the dancing, will support the girls when they compete, but he has no natural shared interests with the DDs.

Of course, other women will not enjoy those things themselves, but I guess it's just socialisation really. I was brought up to enjoy the days out with Mum, so I've always done that with my DDs and now they enjoy it too. Some of the things we do because they've always done it- and I did it with my Mum (shopping, spa, theatre), but other things we have developed an interest because the girls like them (dance and gymnastics). But now they're older we have shared interests and that brings a closeness. For me, that's what I wanted, and thankfully it's what I got... I guess if I had had sons, I would have supported them at football, rugby etc... but unless I had been very lucky and had sons into dancing, gymnastics and spa days, then it would have been me supporting my son rather than engaging in a mutual interest iyswim.

@alletik

My DS does dance and gymnastics and enjoys both. He prefers them to football or rugby. Lots of gender stereotyping in your post.

I am close to my Mum but do not enjoy spa days or shopping.

I wish we could treat children as individuals not genders.

alletik you could of course have had girls who love football (me) cricket (me) rugby (me) and hate gymnastics. On the other other hand there are three children in my son's Y2 class who have been talent spotted for gym - two of them are.......wait for it........drum roll .........yep you guessed it boys! Oh and one child who was spotted from trampolining, yep also a boy.

I agree alletik’s post is very sexist, and is perpetuating stereotypes learned from her mum.

And is the point i was trying to make upthread re. the stats on men being more likely to leave families with no sons. Alletik’s dh must be pretty miserable being so excluded like that.

My dd does gymnastics and dh has got of his arse, learned about the sport, got involved, takes her to comps and training.

I don’t particularly get on with my mum because of the above. She has always discouraged me from my hobbies- sport mainly, and only spent time with me if i did the spa days, shopping, nail appts etc. Which i fucking hate, and now i’m an adult refuse to waste my money on. So we don’t spend time together. She’s the same with my dd’s, keeps wanting to take them shopping, and they just find it boring.

I was really looking forward to taking my child (regardless of gender) to football. Thanks to infertility I only have one (a boy) and he is his father's son i.e. totally utterly not interested in sport. We still have a brilliant bond, do lots of stuff together and I slip off to football with my Dad. I guess in MN world that means my mum is gutted but nope we are really close even though I have never set foot in a spa and don't like shopping.

@Rockandrollwithit

Not stereotyping so much as statistics.

For example, the FA states:

"3.35 million children, aged 5-15 or which 2.49 million are boys and 860,000 are girls."

In England, less than 9% of rugby players are female...

Research by Sports Scotland... showed that whilst 32% of girls dance, only 2% of boys did.

Research by Leeds Met university suggests that for every boy doing gymnastics, there are three girls...

So whilst there are exceptions to the norm (your children), statistically speaking, boys are likely to football and rugby, and girls are more likely to dance and gym. That's not a stereotype- that's statistically shown to be true.

The point I was trying to make was that I would encourage my children to do any hobbies they wanted to, but if my children had gone into rugby or football, for me it would have been supporting my child rather than it genuinely being a shared interest.

And yes, I do recognise that this is the result of socialisation... it's the upbringing I had and my children have had. Others (without the socialisation I had) will act and see things differently, but that is my experience, and so the reasons for my feelings. Of course, other people with different experiences will see things differently.

Yes but the stats would be at least in part to societal norms. Lots of
DS' friends go to football because that's what boys do. Who knows if they would prefer something else?

Actually this research from the government sums up my point better...

"The girls disliked playing games outside in the cold, whereas boys enjoyed the extra space associated with outside games. This difference is reflected in the sports they participate in with girls leaning towards swimming, dance, tennis, netball and gymnastics and boys more often highlighting football, cricket and rugby"

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-research-shows-seven-is-heaven-for-girls-and-sports

But why is that?
Are boys told to toughen up if they complain about the cold whereas girls are indulged?
What about hockey and netball, both popular sports for girls?

I'm not questioning the stats rather what part of them is due to sex differences and which part is due to society.

Have you read Eat Sweat Play? It's a really interesting book about girls / women and sport.

This is a govt analysis of the latest stats:

As you can see, the last govt survey showed girls are more likely to be engaged in gymnastics, dance, theatre. These are the things I am naturally interested in.

Boys are statistically more likely to be engaged in football, athletics, computers etc... all the stuff I find tedious and dull.

My point was only I wanted to have girls, because (through socialisation) I enjoy doing the things statistically a female is more likely to do, and I hate the things a boy is statistically more likely to do.

And of course, there will be women who enjoy doing more traditionally male things, because we're all different, and that's what makes the world go round... but that's not me!

Those stats are massively influenced by gender stereotyping though. If you'd had son's would you have signed them up for dance classes? Your first post certainly implies you wouldn't because you regard dance as a girls activity. Have your daughters tried rugby. The stats show huge gender bias in activities but only tell half the story. Do boys not want to dance or are they not given the chance to try? How many have dad's who would say "my son's not a (insert homophobic slight of choice here) he's not prancing about like one. How many have dancing friends/fathers/ brothers that inspire them to dance? Compare that to how many have a football playing influence. The stats show that despite everything being set up against it there is still a 1 in 10 chance of a rugby playing child being female. When I was at school in the 80s girls football was practically unheard of. It's pretty common place today.

alletik I would encourage my children to do any hobbies they wanted to but would you? Really, honestly would you have enrolled son in dance and gymnastics? Because your posts imply you would have signed them up to football and computer club because they are boys things and dance is not.

Btw I'm not interested in gym or dance personally but DS is. I much prefer tennis and hope he will enjoy that when he is older.

Agree with everything GrumbleBumble says. What would children choose if they had genuine free choice and were not steered by societal / parental expectations?

Yes, Grumble,

If my child had shown an interest in anything, I have always followed their interests. DD once asked to go to watch a football match. I took her with my dad and brother (DH hates football) but she found it boring and never wanted to go again.

A while back DD2 was doing cricket at school, and wanted to join the local club. I looked it up and tried to see if we could get her in... but it clashed with her dancing, so she decided not to do it. I would have supported her all the way with it, but I would have got DH to take her (he likes cricket, I hate it).

And if I had had a son who would have wanted to dance, of course I would have loved that and happily taken him because I love dancing!

I will let my children do whatever hobbies they want to do, and I facilitate it wherever possible. But there are certain things I enjoy more than others - dancing, theatre, music, gymnastics being the main ones.

My son's post natal group was 5 boys and 1 girl. Most of the families now has additional children. The one girl and all the following girls (a total of 5 female children) were all taken to baby ballet while they were at preschool. Guess how many of the 7 boys were taken to dance classes. 0 at preschool age. 1 stated street dance a few weeks ago. Conversely 4 of the original boys were at little kickers (football) (my son was the exception) and none of the girls have been. Society tells girls they want to be pink and frilly and "nice" and it tells boys they want to be loud and physical.

I understand where alletik is coming from. It may well be socialisation that draws hobbies along gender lines but it exists, regardless of whether it comes from the parents or not.

Especially with boys, there’s this huge pressure not to feminise them. To bring your kids up equally, with equal access to hobbies, equal encouragement feels almost political because of the effort it requires to counter the status quo.

My boy goes to gymnastics but he’s the only boy in the class. There’s one female footballer in my other son’s team and she’s the best player out of the whole lot.

"Agree with everything GrumbleBumble says. What would children choose if they had genuine free choice and were not steered by societal / parental expectations?"

Impossible to know, but for Dd I think it is more societal. When DD was little, she hated dolls and the like but she loved her train set. But as soon as she started pre school (aged 3) she started saying certain toys were for boys and some were for girls... she wanted a racing car set, but kept saying they were for boys, I looked everywhere to find a picture of a boy with long hair playing one and told her it was a girl. She accepted that and then loved that scalextrix.

So yes, I'd happily let her do traditionally boy things, but For her, I think it is more societal. She went dancing because her friends went dancing. She started gym at 3, because she was so full of energy I needed to tire her out... and I was the closest one to get to and took children at 3. At 5, that point it was 50/50 boys and girls, but as boys got older, they dropped out more to do other things like football (which round here didn't start until 5). But she had already joined squad by then and did all the hours, so didn't have time for other hobbies, but if she had asked to, I would have said yes.

alletik I didn't mean to imply you would not support your children in their choices more that you daughters are more likely to want to dance because they are aware that it's something that open to them (expected of them?), done by the female peers and may be even started when the are too young to have an opinion. Boys are less likely to think of dance a "their thing".

he wanted two DDs as well

I wonder if he’d have been so keen if he’d known he was going to be sidelined whilst you perpetuate female gender stereotypes with your daughters?

I am not hugely interested in my sons’ hobbies but I have not one problem supporting them rather than having a “shared interest”. Mind you that might be because hell would freeze over before me my mum and sister would go on a girly spa and shopping day. Just not our thing. Kids are their own people who develop their own interests with their own friends, I don’t see why they need to have shared interests and hobbies with their parents.

Not sure if I've not made myself clear, as lots of people se to think I would only let my children do sports of a particular gender.

My point is, I have a natural interest in shopping, spa, gymnastics, dancing, music and theatre.... so whether I had had sons or daughters, I would have loved it if they too enjoyed those things and shared those interests with me. I just wanted to have a child I could share my interests with.

But statistically speaking, as I've shown below, my interests are those predominantly undertaken by females, hence my preference for a daughter who would me more likely (although not a given) to share my interests with me.

I guess it's no different to the Arensal supporting Dad who wants to take his child to matches with him and grow up as an Arsenal supporter.

If they had turned out to support a different team, or to have different interests, it would not have been a problem in the slightest, and of course I would still love and enjoy spending time with my child... but I enjoy bonding with my mother over our shared interests, and now it is nice to do the same with my children too.

I have a natural interest in shopping, spa, gymnastics, dancing, music and theatre.

Do you think they’re really “natural” interests or again as a result of social conditioning/gender stereotyping?

Not stereotyping so much as statistics

The stats are because of the stereotyping.

Baked beans,

Yes! DH is not very social... so he loves it! He has no interest in sport, he doesn't like football, rugby or any of the traditional male sports (except cricket, he can tolerate that). He's naturally very introveted, whereas I'm much more extroverted. I have a big social circle of friends (lots with the mums through DDs hobbies) and enjoy going out... DH is much more into his hobbies, which are computer / tv based and are much more solitary in nature. He would have hated a football playing child too. So it really works for us - I get to take DDs to do the comps etc (about 4-6 times a year) and DH has time to engage with his hobby. He finds watching it boring and tedious. Of course, he comes to the odd one or two to support DD, but he does find 6 hours watching dancing competitions boring as hell... so he's more than happy to stay at home! Some of the dads never go to dancing comps because they find them so intolerable.

Interestingly, whilst I've always enjoyed watching dancing / gymnastics myself, I never really did them as a child, so for some of it, the enjoyment has grown as the DDs have led the way. For example, I've always loved the theatre, but had never been to watch a ballet until DD wanted to go... we enjoyed that together - she loved the ballet and I loved the theatre.

God Id have hated to be a dance Mum. It’s not my thing at all. My boys did go to street dance for a bit but they were crap and just clowned around so it didn’t last! Gymnastics is OK but tbh it’s my hubby who takes him to that as well.