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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this delusional dirty pervert should stay exactly where he is and starve if that's what he wants?

404 replies

QOFE · 27/01/2018 16:09

There is currently a delightful person on hunger strike because the prison service won't "recognise their gender" and send them to a women's prison.

see here

Nobody seems to want to mention the fact that they are in fact a sex offender and voyeur who broke into teenage girls bedrooms to wank into their underwear Hmm

Why the hell they think they should be in a women's prison is completely beyond me. Anyone able to enlighten me?

OP posts:
NannyOggsKnickers · 27/01/2018 20:39

This man definitely isn’t a woman. And conflating him with other trans people is a disgrace. Are you suggesting balsamic that this man and his sick behaviour makes him part of a vulnerable group of people. I expect other trans people might take offence at that.

He is fairly obviously someone with a deep seated violent fetish for women’s clothing whose behaviour was escalating.

Using his fetishes as a cover story to get him some sort of pass is a fair despicable thing to do.

Stop virtue signalling for long enough to engage critical though processes.

Flowerpot1234 · 27/01/2018 20:40

I recognise his right to starve himself to death.

I recognise it, I'll print it out, and I'll frame it.

Whwhywhy · 27/01/2018 20:40

Maybe he should pop on a prison officer’s uniform and identify as “trans legal” and wander out the door.

Datun · 27/01/2018 20:41

If they meet the commonly used criteria, yes. This would involve, I believe, living in the style of the new gender for at least a year though, so dressing appropriately mostly. You don't stop being a person on medical grounds because you're a prisoner.

I'm terribly sorry, but I'm afraid that makes you a terf.

Trans ideology absolutely does not say that you have to present as a woman in order to be trans. And that sort of thinking is transphobic.

Fortunately, at the moment, the law does have criteria. But there is cross-party support to eliminate it entirely.

Hence women's concern.

Eatalot · 27/01/2018 20:51

Omg this is exactly what women have been scared of. A pervert who wants access to women saying hes a woman. I hope HE starves.

PencilsInSpace · 27/01/2018 20:53

If they meet the commonly used criteria, yes. This would involve, I believe, living in the style of the new gender for at least a year though, so dressing appropriately mostly.

Dressing appropriately? Are you for real? What is appropriate dress for a woman please? I'm not sure I'm doing it right Hmm

To get a GRC he would need:

  • 2 years' worth of documents in his new identity
  • a diagnosis of gender dysphoria

Even without a GRC, the prison service have discretion to house transwomen in the female estate on a case by case basis. They moved Tara Hudson to a women's prison even though Tara had no GRC. Tara was convicted for headbutting a barman so badly he lost most of his teeth. Tara earns a living as an escort, advertising a fully functional 7" surprise among services offered.

There is a clear pathway for transwomen prisoners to move towards a GRC and many accommodations for those who remain in the male estate. The fact that this particular prisoner did not qualify for any of that speaks volumes. The prison service are not stupid.

You don't stop being a person on medical grounds because you're a prisoner.

Men are people, what is your point?

AreYouOrHaveYouEverBeenATERF · 27/01/2018 20:54

Translation: Trans women aren't really women.

Of course they're not.

You realise the TRA's desired legal changes (ie. the amendments to the Gender Recognition Act) would allow this prisoner to be put in a women's prison with no questions asked?

Do you actually think it's a good idea to have men allowed to tick a box and self declare as a woman - Hell, we won't need many men's prisons for much longer.

AngryAttackKittens · 27/01/2018 20:54

I used to give other women who were uncritically supportive of the TRA stance at least enough credit to think that when something like this happened and they could no longer pretend that it wasn't happening they'd try to backpedal by no true transing the criminal. Didn't expect them to just boldly go for the "so what if this person is a clear and obvious threat to women? still belongs in a women's prison" angle on a website full of women.

It's like peeling an onion, there's always another layer of WTF underneath.

titchy · 27/01/2018 20:59

Translation: Trans women aren't really women.

Well yes, obviously. That's the entire point. Pesky Y chromosomes.

MissionItsPossible · 27/01/2018 21:01

Is the guardian article fake news? Hate the term but thought about it and think perhaps it is. Not in the sense that it's made up, it's completely true in its reporting even before the amendment but it deliberately left out a chunk of what happened regarding the crime in order to fit the newspapers agenda. As they all do, of course. Is it all fake news? Do I need a tin foil hat?

Justabunchofcunts · 27/01/2018 21:05

@balsamicbarbara most people on mumsnet have a range of views about things. There are lots of parents here but not all people are parents. There are lots of women here but also some men. There is a huge range of backgrounds, locations and political views. I have learnt many things here by connecting with people who have vastly different experiences from me.

There is a common thread woven throughout of understanding and respecting women's rights and issues. Things like sexual assault and abuse, discrimination due to assumptions people make about women due to their biology eg that they will probably have children even if they don't want to or can't. It is a space to talk about fear of birth, the traumas of pregnancy, post-birth injuries, and how to bring up babies. It is a place to come if you desperately want to conceive but can't. To check out whether you might be on the receiving end of domestic violence and to find support if so. To ask about what benefits you might be entitled to as a single parent, how to make the food last until payday so you can feed yourself and, if you have then, your kids. To talk about how you juggle work and family life, how you get through maternity leave (and even these days shared parental leave) alive, and put yourself back together for work at the end of it. To ask how to get your child to sleep at night or share worries that they are ill. And it is so many other things.

A thread that weaves through all of this is awareness of women and girl's rights and needs and concerns and dangers. Here is why I think many are expressing concerns on this particular thread: We are now being told that potentially any man who decides to say he is a woman can be housed in a women's prison. We are not used to being told someone with a penis who has committed sex crimes is a woman. The whole point of sex segregated prisons is to people with breasts and vaginas safely away from people with penises who might do the women harm because of this. Whatever we call a prisoner with a penis who has committed sex crimes, it doesn't change the reasons they have previously been housed separately to women. Whatever we call people with penises, it doesn't change the reasons we as a society have been putting people with penises in a separate prison building to those with vaginas. Saying trans women are women doesn't change that. Although it does make it easier to obfuscate the debate.

This doesn't mean that we hate trans people or are bigots or transphobic. Not that we wouldn't be happy to have an open debate about how to support trans people in feeling safe, respected and comfortable while also ensuring women are safe.

But we will stand up for women's rights to feel and be safe. Why on earth would you ask us not to, or be surprised if we do this?

SimonBridges · 27/01/2018 21:05

Any woman should have the right to refuse to share sleeping quarters with someone with a penis if it makes her uncomfortable, including vulnerable women in prison.

Penises make me very uncomfortable when they are being inserted into me unwanted.

flapsDentata · 27/01/2018 21:07

Is not fake news, but it’s vague and utterly disingenuous. Manipulative too. Once you know what he is, your sympathy drains. Hand him a violin.

Justabunchofcunts · 27/01/2018 21:09

Mission no but I can see why you thought so. I think there are some serious biases at play in the Guardian's reporting of this generally.

RochelleGoyle · 27/01/2018 21:10

She also claims that prison officials “refused to give hair straighteners, epilator or any makeup”.

Funny, because I actually am a woman I'm reliant on none of those things. 🙄

DeleteOrDecay · 27/01/2018 21:10

YANBU, he can starve for all I care. One less burden on the tax payer.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 27/01/2018 21:15

Yup. He can quite literally go fuck himself.

QueenLaBeefah · 27/01/2018 21:15

I haven't clicked on the guardian website since the whole Cologne thing when they stated that the women brought it upon themselves because they owed smart phones. The guardian hates women every bit as much as the Daily Mail.

And I couldn't care less if that pervert starves himself to death. The world won't mourn him.

DeleteOrDecay · 27/01/2018 21:16

Translation: Trans women aren't really women.

Well duhHmm

MissionItsPossible · 27/01/2018 21:23

Justabunchofcunts can someone give this person a microphone? Great post.

In response to mine could bias to the point where it changes a whole different opinion entirely not be considered fake?

DrudgeJedd · 27/01/2018 21:25

I bet that article only got updated because Janice Turner tweeted the disingenuous little creep who wrote it. Having a respected journalist pointing out your shortcomings to her 40k followers must sting a bit.

Justabunchofcunts · 27/01/2018 21:33

Thanks Mission.

On fake news, I think the thing about that phrase is it's been used by Trump and his opposition and kind of lost its meaning. It just seems to be a way of saying my side is right and yours is wrong and turning everything into smoke.

It was clearly hugely biased reporting though, and I think pointing that out, factually, and explaining why it's important/ridiculous/whatever is the most powerful line of attack.

PencilsInSpace · 27/01/2018 21:50

Funny, because I actually am a woman I'm reliant on none of those things.

Ah, that'll be your 'cis privilege' Rochelle Wink

You don't need those things to be a woman because you are ACTUALLY FEMALE WITH A VAGINA AND EVERYTHING.

Poor transwomen don't have that so they need hair straighteners, epilators and make up or they will kill themselves or starve themselves or cease to exist or something.

That's why they are the most oppressed ever and you should be grateful and proud to sacrifice your privacy, dignity, safety and sanity in order to validate and centre them in your activism and in your daily life.

StepAwayFromGoogle · 27/01/2018 21:57

@Pencilsinspace - I apologise, I wasn't trying to speak on behalf of everyone on MN. I've followed loads of the trans debates, though, and have found that a lot of people think a fully-transitioned trans woman is different to a man who identifies as a woman but still has all their male genitalia in tact. I only used the term TERF because I was responding to Balsamicbarbara.

@Justabunchofcunts - great post. Agree with everything you said.

MissionItsPossible · 27/01/2018 22:01

I don't know if I'm thinking too literally here and it seems plain to me because different papers have different messages but On fake news, I think the thing about that phrase is it's been used by Trump and his opposition and kind of lost its meaning. It just seems to be a way of saying my side is right and yours is wrong and turning everything into smoke.

I don't like using the term because it's associated with him. But the second part of the sentence, couldn't it be argued that the Guardians stance on men wanting to be women, refusing comments on certain articles and deleting comments on articles their moderators don't agree with a form of my side is right and your side is wrong? Then an article that is 100% true but deliberately leaving out a chunk of the information that makes it look like a different case entirely, is that not smoke and mirrors?

Not laying the blame entirely at the Guardian because all outlets do it but this is what I meant when I say fake news. If nobody else agrees I will agree IABU and let go of it Grin