RUBU about grandparents?

[Caroelle]

I read this page occasionally and I have been noticing more threads about what is reasonable/ unreasonable behaviour in relation to grandparents.. I am in my mid50s but had my children late, youngest is just 18. I am a social worker and worked throughout their childhood, this was p/t until youngest was 13. My job is stressful and I’m currently working about 50 hours a week, which is exhausting. My children have been n/c with my parents as they are very damaged and damaging people. I am very much looking to be a grandparent at some point. I am also looking forward to retiring and doing the things that my job, and being a parent, has stopped me from doing. For me and DH that is our time. Our bodies are ageing, I know that we get tired more quickly than we did 10 years ago. What comes across on this page quite regularly is that some people seem to assume that grandparents will/ should do anything for their grandchildren, usually to help out the parents. If gps don’t do this, they are considered selfish and inflexible. They seem to have to account for their time, if they aren’t doing something the poster approves of then they are seen as being un-co-operative/ unhelpful. If you are getting free childcare, baby sitters, pick ups from school etc just be grateful. If your children have a loving relationship with other adults, value this. Be grateful for your parents, they have lives and dreams and things that they want to do. They have already brought up one family, hopefully they choose to help and support you but it is not their responsibility to do everything you may think they should do, no matter how much they love you and your children. No doubt that I will get shot down about this. C’est la vie!

Pinkfluffy your list is applicable to any and very generation ever!

To help their children Yes. As and when they want to, not when expected to

To form a close relationship with the grandchildren Yes. As and when they want to, not because it is the law!

Because they love the children Mmm! Not always a fact

Because it takes a village to raise a child That's not the same thing, it means something entirely different

Because it's healthy for children to have relationships with other relatives independent from their parents Again, not always. Not all families are like the Waltons

Because times have changed and families can no longer manage on one wage and childcare is extortionate Times are always changing. Family Tax Credits, free nursery hours, married women being allowed to work and all sorts of other changes...

Because it feels good to help others But not so good to feel you are being taken advantage of or forced to do something that isn't convenient

As others have said, that word should is a real problem!

Ooh! I cross posted with your back track explanation.

Sorry!

I'd say the view is pretty balanced overall.

There are some posters who seem to have very high expectations of GP input that I would generally think to be excessive, but I don't think that's the norm.

Equally there are GP's who seem to begrudge even the most basic of assistance eg a couple of hours every few months.

Like most things on MN you tend only to see the extremes - most people don't post about how well things are going.....

My PILs have DD 2 days per week and that's because they asked, and absolutely adore having her. We regularly offer to pay them and they won't hear of it. Should they no longer want to do this or feel able, we're fully capable of paying for nursery.

The attitude of entitlement is what's wrong, not the arrangements themselves

Backtrack? Pull the other one.

I reiterated exactly why I said in my first post.

Anyway luckily for me I have a good relationship with my parents and in laws. My mum said from the start it was too much and she didn't want to commit to childcare though both sets of parents love having our dc for a few hours here and there.

I hope one day I can do the same for my grandchildren, because I don't believe my parenting duties just end when my children grow up.

Some of you are very bitter and twisted.

I'm not particularly into babies and find them exhausting (and boring tbh) so not dying for a chance to mind a baby again (always a bit agog at the number of MILs who want baby to stay overnight etc - I like my sleep). Also really looking forward to retirement and being free to do what we want.

But my own parents and my MILs were absolute stars when my children were small. They didn't live nearby so no regular childminding like siblings and inlaws had but still clearly loved spending time with my children, wanted us to have a break, got great joy from them. As a result my children loved them (parents are dead now) and they had great relationships with them (FIL had no time for small children, died before mine got old enough to be interesting to him and they have no real memories of him as a real person).

So I think I'll try to do the same for my children - I know how much it meant to me to have MIL send me back to bed or let me and dh go out for a meal so will try to pass it on. I also know how much grandchildren enriched my parents' lives.

I also don't get the references to "I'll be picking their home" or "don't expect us to help then when you are old" It is so depressingly transactional. I think there are a lot of people who don't actually like their parents very much. Maybe the parents reap what they sow but the truth is I would still have helped FIL/taken care of him even though he was only academically interested in my children. he was a family member. He loved and reared my dh. He loved and had a relationship with me.

I love my adult DD, I love her child. I don't have to help out, but I like to. She doesn't ask much, but she will sometimes ask for me to go over to hers for the day, then she can go to bed and nap when she likes (she is pregnant). My DGD is totally different towards me when DD is not around. I appreciate that.

My parents don't have to help me out. But they chose to spend time and build relationships with my DC and my sibling's DC because they love them and enjoy their company. The fact that by doing this they enabled me to study and work is a bonus.

"not expect to be "looked after" like "a close family" in their old age if they have been unprepared to reciprocate at times.”
So you don’t intend to do anything for the people who have brought you up ( assuming that they were reasonable parents and weren’t abusive or neglectful) unless they look after your children. Surely, if it’s a business arrangement as you seem to describe it, you ‘reciprocate’ for the care they have given you already.

I don't think people should expect parents to look after their grandchildren.

But it's unreasonable of you to expect your children to look after you in your old age. They didn't ask to be born.

FWIW, I have been supporting my mother since I was in my 20s. By the time she passes away, I will have supported her for far longer than the 20 years she supported me.

Small children can be hard work, especially if you are not naturally child-orientated and having had children of your own does not necessarily make you that way.

We have had many years when we couldn't just leave the house when we wanted to because of the responsibility of minding our children and then teenagers. Then just we start getting our social lives up again and planning for how to spend our old age and along come grandchildren.

Don't get me wrong I love my dgd and babysit often, but the idea that I see a lot on Mumsnet, and that the OP is referring to, that it is the duty of grandmothers to provide free childcare (with the gleeful threat of abandoning uncooperative parents in their hour of need) really gets my goat.

I'm not mad about babies either but I'd still help if I could.

I'd hate to see my child or child in law struggling knackered if I was perfectly able to offer a bit of support, just because I didn't want to put myself out.

Different story as I said in my FIRST post, if being taken advantage of or expected to provide long hours of childcare, I find my own children a handful so wouldn't expect my own parents to take that on in their older years.

There are three people I think about in situations like this.
The first is my friend, who has looked after her grandchildren while their mothers work and had them for overnight visits and school holidays and done so gladly. She takes a general interest in them and clearly loves having them around. Now she is getting older and unwell, her children rally round and help her, one has moved home to be near her and she has everything she could possibly need.
The second is my uncle. He never married and has no children, but he always took a great interest in our family and has always gone out of his way to support us (not with money, I hasten to add, because he never had any and we would never accept it). He has taken an interest in us and been there for us when disaster has struck. Now he has a cruel and degenerative illness and can't be cared for at home. We visit often, make sure he has everything he needs and do everything we can for him.
Then there is my mother. She has made it very clear that she would never lift a finger to help me, has never been supportive in an emotional sense and only really cares about herself. To her, the individual is all and she owes nothing to any wider family or community. I don't care about not babysitting, but she could have at least phoned to see how her grandson was when he was rushed into hospital at 18 months old and kept in for a week. She could have sympathised when I had a very difficult illness, or when I was just struggling generally. She is elderly now and according to her she has many many complicated health problems. I don't care.

The last thread I read on here about this, most posters said why should the OP expect her DM to look after her children and that the DM had every right to say no.

It is very much down to the individual and their own life/job/etc. If they don't want to then they shouldn't be made to feel bad about it.

My DM made it very clear that she would not be able to look after my child so that I could work, and so I used a childminder until preschool age. As DC got older and less hard work, DM had DC more often and a lot more since I became a single parent. She is very much there for me and my child, but was unable to be a full time carer for DC while I worked.

I will not be able to care for my parents should they ever need it. Due to divorce, I will have a mortgage to pay until I am 67, so will have to continue to work full time. So there is no way that I will be able to look after them and I should not be expected to.

it's an interesting subject. I'm turning 50 this year and my eldest is now married, I expect it's not too long before there are GC on the scene.

Im with pinkfluffy in that i didn't stop being a parent because my kids left home, I'm still their family and their kids will be my family too. I hope it wouldn't have to come to "should" and instead would automatically be "want". Obviously it depends on personal circumstances but if I have spare time and can help the family out then I will, because its good to keep those connections and be part of the team - I'm very much into families being a team.

You know what I never expect my parents or partners to look after my child, in total last year we had 3 wonderful date nights and expected to pick our child up at around 10am sharp on 1 of those occasions. It does bring out the green eyed dragon sometimes however when all my friends who have children are frequently out and enjoying their 30's but it was my choice to have a child and my responsibility . However I would say that as a child I spent every weekend I can remember at my grandparents Fri-Sun so my mother and father both had free weekends every weekend in their 20's and now in their 50's they're also out every weekend that is what upsets me sometimes especially considering one grandparent has never ever had her alone

I don't think anyone other than parents should be 'expected' to look after children. I do think a blanket "I'll never babysit" ban, or even mentailty is sad for everyone. I was incredibly close to my grandparents, then they ended up bringing me up, and I'm so glad my MIL realised that it actually takes work to have a very close relationship with her grandchildren.

MIL's sister is a prime example. Won't ever babysit (not even when one of her children needed to take one of their children to A&E). Doesn't do kids' birthday parties. Gets annoyed when her children, who work long hours during the week and don't get a lot of time with their children themselves, don't visit her every Sunday. Spends a lot of time moaning that MIL - who puts in effort with the children (we have 6 in our house and she knows them all well, has spent time with them) - has a much better relationship with her grandchildren than she does. She cannot grasp that that's because MIL put in effort, not because DH & I treat MIL better than her children treat her.

Can people PLEASE stop saying "it takes a village"?

Nobody wanting their GP to babysit is interested in creating a village around their child. They just want unpaid help. It takes a village means that you value the other relationships with that child and try to foster them with some flexibility. But when people use it on MN, they mean we want a village of unpaid mute helpers and slaves who have no say, no opinion, no input.

If the GP doesn't do exactly what the parent says, most people on MN are yelling to "go NC!".

It takes a village means that the local neighbor would be able to tell your children off if they misbehaved. But most parents on MN lose it if their best friend of 20 years dared tell their pfb to stop smashing their fine china.

It takes a village but don't you DARE suggest that a MIL be allowed to see a new grandchild for the first month (!) if the mum doesn't want them to. You're the mum, it's about YOU.

It takes a village but if people refuse to buy presents off a list, then people are on MN yelling about how much they hate them.

It takes a village! Yeah, right. Call it what it is. Unpaid work!

Like to add also *pay my own childcare everyday . Grandma is the only one who has ever been asked to watch child in emergency on a few occasions. In the holidays grandma also watched little one once a week extremely grateful as this not only builds they're bond she's her favourite grandma but also means i save over 300 in the 6 week holidays

Just to be clear, we no longer live in villages and that gives us more freedom and independence. But we're lost a lot of the support.

A lot of new parents want the support of the village with the independence and freedom of the city. Elder wisdom (MILs daring to offer opinions) is seen as borderline abusive criticism but them caring for your kids all week is fine cos "it takes a village"!

Give over.

I think it's all about having a happy balance that works for everyone and having a family unit that looks out for each other because they care but I don't think any party should presume, expect or feel entitled. I've seen threads on here which do moan with expectations that GPs should be doing more, like it's "their duty" but also an equally high amount that complain about GP's out staying their welcome or seen to be interfering. Like OP I'm older. My DS has SEN and my parents (DH's have died) are in need of help themselves as they're in their 80's, so couldn't assist if they wanted. I find myself having to do practical jobs for them quite a lot but they don't expect it of me just like I'd never expect of them. IMO It's more about everyone doing things because you care and want to help out.

Totally agree shclimb.

Full time childcare? A big no unless the grandparent wants to. But the odd few hours now and then? It's beyond me why any grandparent in good health, with the right circumstances wouldn't want to spend a bit of time with their grandchildren.

I don't know anyone in real life that is like this and the ones that are we're usually crap parents that couldn't be bothered with their own children either.

What a pointless rant. Not all of us think like this

I think if gps are retired, healthy & live close by they should help out. Be it a bit of childcare or babysitting. I also think people shouldn’t take the piss.

Our family all help each out whether it’s babysiting, DIY etc.

My DH has one close friend who’s mother has never had his 3YO child for more than 1 hour. He has no other family but luckily his wife’s family are very involved. They have recently moved to be closer to her family in an area they could afford. As a result his mother (who is friendly with DHs mother) is very upset & bitter that her only child has moved so far away. She moans that she never sees her GS etc. She lives in a 2m house & her own parents provided full time childcare. Now DH friend has never moaned about her lack of involvement or financial assistance & does do a lot for her. Obviously since the move he can’t be there anywhere near as much. I do believe you reap what you sow.

Pinkfluffy - because you may just want to relax in your old age having spent a lifetime putting your needs behind everyone else's. I do not expect GPS to help, And the amount of posters on here who complain about how their GPS look after their kids astonished me.

It take a village is simply a saying. It takes more than just the parents to bring up a well balanced child. Extended family, teachers, neighbours, friends and so on.

Some of you must live very isolated lives. All of the above have a valuable input into my children's lives.