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Original poster

To think we don’t realise what modern life is doing to families?

276 replies

MrsGrindah · 23/01/2018 20:42

I’ll own up here.. not a mother myself but a stepmother.
But I spend a lot of time travelling on trains for work and see so many parents on the phone to their kids ( in the mornings and before bedtime). Yes it’s great that technology allows this, but I just feel sorry for people missing out on being with their families. Last week there was a man talking to his little boy, apologising that he had gone before the boy had woken up and wouldn’t be back by the time he went to bed. I felt so sorry for everyone
Not blaming the parents and of course we all have to work. My point is as a society we are becoming used to this and almost expect people to be prepared to sacrifice a significant chunk of family life. Just makes me feel sad to see it and I wonder whether we’ll regret it in years to come.

OP posts:
PramWanker · 28/01/2018 08:39

Why do people always hearken back to the coal mines? Why not the 70s?

It's as though people want to normalise a really punitive economic system, rather than looking back to the recent past and questioning the choices we have made/have had forced on us by quite recent economic changes.

100%.

Sashkin · 30/01/2018 01:28

Why do people always hearken back to the coal mines? Why not the 70s?

Plenty of people worked in coal mines in the 1970s. Most of my family, in fact. They were the main employer locally. Are you thinking of chimney sweeps? Confused

thecatfromjapan · 30/01/2018 17:54

If you look at the thread, the coal mines people have in mind are those of the early Industrial Revolution, with men, women and children working alongside each other, for long, long hours. It's part of the whole: "It's always been thus," spiel that people seem addicted to.

They don't have the labour patterns of the 70s in mind.

JuliannaBixby · 30/01/2018 18:37

I think it would be weird if, in the entire arc of human history, we only compared our lives now to one decade Confused

EggsonHeads · 30/01/2018 18:41

I would argue that the problem is that life, working life in particular isn't modern enough! A lot of people don't actually need to go to work physically most of the time and could do their work just as well from home rendering community groups unecessary for them and better for everyone else. On top of that commuting in Britain is horrible. The trains are unnecessarily slow and the roads need a complete overhaul.

farfallarocks · 30/01/2018 18:45

I feel zero Mum guilt, I love my job and earn 10x my husband. My dd wants to be a xx ( my job) when she grows up.

JuliannaBixby · 30/01/2018 19:07

That's an excellent point @EggsonHeads. So many more people could have a great work life balance, but we're stuck in the 5 day working week in an office habit, when it's no longer necessary in a lot of cases.

lizzieoak · 30/01/2018 20:36

Definitely agree Eggs. Much of my office work has been bums on seats with nowhere near enough work to fill the day, and other jobs have been very busy but could have been done telecommuting.

ForalltheSaints · 30/01/2018 20:47

I think the way the office has intruded into the home is of more concern. People who answer or read emails at home at times they could be spending with other members of their family.

blueshoes · 30/01/2018 22:35

Flexible working from home and technology means that the lines between home and work life are blurred. Sure, I might be checking a work email and responding to it, but 10 minutes later, I can help my ds with a math homework problem. I cook dinner and after it is tidied away, continue working on my laptop. My dcs don't mind sharing me with the office. They see me as being at home and able to check in and out in between their school work, piano practice, TV and playing on the phone.

This is modern life. It is not structured with clear delineations between work and home but fluid and flexible.

CrazyExIngenue · 31/01/2018 04:29

it's these Mums who are walking with their kids in buggies and looking at their phones that do my head in - TALK to your child !

What in the world are you going to talk to a toddler or baby about for hours a day?

What is this ridiculous expectation that we should be talking and focusing on our children 24/7!??!

My mother didn't have a smart phone when I was growing up but she certainly had downtime, I was shoved into the neighborhood to go play with other kids from about 4 onwards, she wasn't watching over my shoulder, she was home reading a magazine or watching soap operas, her and every other SAHM in the neighbourhood. My DM had no issues with letting us watch a few hours of TV a day either, DM & DF would actually record the Saturday morning cartoons so we could watch them throughout the week.

The problem now is if you suggested that a child of 4 was perfectly capable of playing in the park or in the neighbourhood by themselves you'd have SS called. So parents are expected to follow their kids around and entertain their kids to a level that previous generations never did. So yes, when you're sitting in the park for hours on end or pushing your toddler around with a buggy for hours, you're going to mentally switch off and go to your phone. It's normal to not want to focus on a baby/child 24/7, your brain would turn to mush if you did.

JuliannaBixby · 31/01/2018 09:48

YY @CrazyExIngenue

dameofdilemma · 31/01/2018 10:09

Yes I long for the not so modern 1950s where women stayed at home, knew their place, popped their pills and didn't complain when they were dropped for the secretary Hmm

Seriously though, making working from home, flexible working and, part-time working available more widely, would make the biggest difference (and without relegating women to a lifetime of financial dependence).
Shared parental leave is a good start - now we just need more men to take it up.

It's not just policies that need to change, its a cultural shift (particularly for men) that child rearing isn't solely women's work.

NeverTwerkNaked · 31/01/2018 10:16

Exactly dame I’m so sad that women can work. If I hadn’t had a job I would have been financially trapped into staying with my incredibly abusive ex-husband, isolated from friends and family and suicidal. That would have been much better for my children.

CakeOfThePan · 31/01/2018 10:19

I get what your saying I think OP and to a certain extent i agree. Working is rarely flexible and family friendly, e.g supermarkets and shops used to have week workers and weekend mostly separate, now its all 4 day shifts and zero hour contracts . People having long commutes meaning they are further away so miss plays, assemblies, bed times. Weekend work for parents is more common. Summer holiday split holidays to stretch the holiday allowance to cover childcare mean both parents don't get to spend family time. Both parents needing full time work to just exist. I do think it then puts a stress on relationships as everyone has to pull their weight all the time with every day life having to be organised with military precision.

Its not a great treadmill to be on, the choice of having a parent home is slowly going and i don't think its best for everyone.

I also think theres another element on the other spectrum where we have to live further away , from our parents so in their old age we won't / aren't about to help them, include them in family life so add to the lonely epidemic . Not to mention all the issues of shift work, holidays as mentioned above. It means there isn't the early intervention when they just need a little more help with shopping or doctors appointments.

I blame two things, house prices and less secure jobs. As mentioned by a PP the 'super worker' means you need to feel irreplaceable and that comes at a cost somewhere. Where you would have a job for 30 odd years, that doesn't happen now.

As for the mums on their iPhones, i can remember my mum spending hours on the home phone talking rubbish to everyone (when i was really little it was only after 6 as that was when it was cheaper) just being ignored, so its not a new thing its just we can take them out with us now. I do have to give my OH a kick when he's out with us sometimes as he's quite often glued to his phone and sort of 'absent' from the day even though he's physically there. That makes me sad.

biscuiteater · 31/01/2018 10:22

Anyone see that tv programme that was on a while back where a family recreated different decades based on survey data, it was called back in time or something like that. It was looking at what life was like for families in different eras and the 1970s was voted the best overall for quality family time. I myself remember being a child in the 1970s and we always had a meal altogether every evening as my dad got home in time for 6pm. Didn't have any luxuries as couldn't afford them but did have time together. Work life balance is important.

UpstartCrow · 31/01/2018 10:26

The idea of the ,man working reasonable hours to support his family is a middle class myth.
The women in my family have always worked. They couldn't afford not to. They scrubbed floors and did washing like poor women have always done since forever. And yes they were glad to be able to ''enter the workforce'' as one poster put it, because they were adults.

RedForFilth · 31/01/2018 11:05

It's always been the case for the working classes. Every woman I know in my family has always worked. It's just not starting to affect the middle classes so people are getting their knickers in a twist about it. Nobody cares if it only affects poor people.

CakeOfThePan · 31/01/2018 11:16

I hate that you can't have a conversation about this without it descending into stay at home mums vs working mums. I don't think its about mums at all. I think Its about adults having the choice and being able to do what you feel is best for your family, having the flexibility. It could be Female at home, Male at home, no one at home. Part time, full time, working from home. Not being forced into unsociable / more hours. Not being scared to say no to your boss in case you lose your job. Make it easier and less judged to ask for flexible working, easier to retrain (and cheaper).

We should respect each others choices not bash each other for making a different choice to us, we've all made that choice based on what we feel is right. Whatever choice you make is ok, but we need to make sure there is still the choice left.

dameofdilemma · 31/01/2018 12:15

I hate that you can't have a conversation about this without it descending into stay at home mums vs working mums.

I don't think anyone is saying that are they?

The reality is its impossible to have this debate without taking into account gender.
The vast majority of part-time workers are women.
The vast majority of SAHPs are women.
Factually and statistically it could be argued that child rearing is seen as women's work by the majority.

Would employers be forced to make more flexible working and part-time opportunities available if men were equally invested in the issue (and therefore a greater proportion of the workforce was fighting for change)?

UpstartCrow · 31/01/2018 12:25

The point is most people don't have a choice, we dont inherit enough money to live on for the whole of our lives. We have to earn it.

If society wants women to stay at home and mind the kids and Dads to get home before the kids go to bed, then society has to pay people enough to do that. Either in wages or benefits or tax relief.
But then people get snippy about those who have kids they cant afford.

NeverTwerkNaked · 31/01/2018 12:54

I’m not talking about stay at home vs working parents. I’m questioning why anyone would idealise I set up where one parent is financially dependent on another.

NeverTwerkNaked · 31/01/2018 12:54

*a set up

CakeOfThePan · 31/01/2018 15:06

Would employers be forced to make more flexible working and part-time opportunities available if men were equally invested in the issue (and therefore a greater proportion of the workforce was fighting for change)?
They absolutely should, shared parental leave as a pp said is a great start.

But then people get snippy about those who have kids they cant afford.
Its not just about children its about being more flexible for family life, that includes caring for elderly relatives.

The point is most people don't have a choice, we dont inherit enough money to live on for the whole of our lives. We have to earn it.
I dont think anyones arguing about not working forever, its just about there being the flexibility for family to not suffer at the detriment of this treadmill.

Whatshallidonowpeople · 31/01/2018 15:12

People could survive on lower salaries and therefore work fewer hours or have a stay at home parent, they just don't want to. They want a car each, and to eat out or get takeaways, smoke or drink, have sky tv and top of the range phones, iPads etc. Live in the south, where it's expensive. They don't want to walk or cycle, they expect transport. They expect large houses so children don't have to share and so on. And still they bleat on about being hard up!