To think we don’t realise what modern life is doing to families?

[MrsGrindah]

I’ll own up here.. not a mother myself but a stepmother.
But I spend a lot of time travelling on trains for work and see so many parents on the phone to their kids ( in the mornings and before bedtime). Yes it’s great that technology allows this, but I just feel sorry for people missing out on being with their families. Last week there was a man talking to his little boy, apologising that he had gone before the boy had woken up and wouldn’t be back by the time he went to bed. I felt so sorry for everyone
Not blaming the parents and of course we all have to work. My point is as a society we are becoming used to this and almost expect people to be prepared to sacrifice a significant chunk of family life. Just makes me feel sad to see it and I wonder whether we’ll regret it in years to come.

And sorry just to explain ..I made the point I’m a stepmother just because I wanted to acknowledge I haven’t actually had to juggle babies and working myself

My mum worked full time and my dad worked away in the 1970s. We didn’t see him for weeks and weeks.

I’m a child of the 70s/80s and my dad worked in another country after he was made redundant and there was no work locally. I didn’t see him for weeks at a time and my mum worked once I was school age too, so I frequently came home to an empty house. It’s not a new thing, in the past parents just got in past bedtime and there was no phone calls en route

Same here. Still managed to grow up well balanced and not contributing to any of whatever Ills in society it supposedly causes in the long term.

I think you’re spot on. I work long hours I’m tired and it does seem like a big juggle and that we can miss out on kids. Even my mum who was FT working single parent thinks parents have it harder and kids have more pressure on them too. Though equally some of that our own making.
And it’s not about both parents working it’s more modern day hours, work calls coming in to mobiles after hours checking on emails to keep up. I think it’s getting harder TBH but maybe it’s just me feeling old and tired!

My dad worked long hours, I often went all week (Monday-Friday) without seeing him. He would leave Home before I was up, not get Home until long after my bedtime, I survived. There are worse things happening in the world than hard working parent.

I think the senario in OP has been common place for generations. The only difference now is that the man recognises that he has responsibilities other than earning the money, that his family miss him (and he them) an is able to contact them easily.

Total middle class handwringing. Poor working people generally have had to see less of their children for time immemorial.

My granny had five children andd they all went to state-fudned nursery. This was in the late 1940s to 1950s. And when t hey got to about 8-10, they would let themselves in or be cared for by their older siblings after school. Out to work at 14.

Common for poorer people in developing countries to not see their kids for months. I'm not advocating this as an ideal, not at all, but to imply it's a modern disease is historically inaccurate and a dodgy premise to start from.

It is sad. Both parents working and kids in childcare for long days from babies isn't unusual now and is the set up a lot of families need to get by.

My parents both worked, long hours and nights away, in the 80s. This is not a modern phenomenon - there's just more availability for them to be in contact now which is better.

YANBU at all, except that I think people do realise this but can’t do anything about it.

The tipping point came when housing became unaffordable on a single income. This, combined with societal changes pushing women to become financially independent, made for a perfect storm. Of course women’s independence has been an excellent thing, but it wasn’t accompanied by reciprocal pressure on men to take on their fair share of “Home” based responsibilities. The net result is both adults looking out for themselves at the expense of children and the family unit.

I don't think there's any indication that the family in the OP have two parents working long hours - there must be someone else there to get LO up and to bed.

I never saw my Dad during the week in the 1970s. He was out before I was up and I was in bed when he got home. Apparently I insisted that he came in to kiss me goodnight when he got home and although I never appeared to wake, I always knew if he hadn't been in

I am not a fan of this modern thing where both parents work from 8-6 every day. But I think people do it believing they are getting a better quality of life, to buy nicer things and what not. Whereas I am the opposite end, I don't care if I am poor, as long as my kids are fed and we have a nice safe warm home I am happy. Sure, its nice to have treats but we have always preferred to take a drop in finances so one of us could go to the kids plays, be home for the school runs and what not. Luckily we have never relied heavily on childcare. We were piss poor broke when the kids were small but they remember one of us always being at their assemblies or helping out with the school fair etc. No way would I have sacrificed all those memories for a bigger tv, a nicer house, designer clothes and two weeks in Mexico every other year.

BUT where I live is cheap as chips. We are lucky we have always been able to get work or get training etc. Even with both of us on minimum wage we would still be ok as we are and get a cheap week away in Europe every other year. As it is, on £46k a year between us we have the flexibility to do everything we want. I am a total bargain hunter and refuse to pay trades people etc so save a fortune. We have got three holidays this year planned, big (but cheap) house and we don't buy much in the way of luxury goods. And best of all we are happy as pigs in shit and spend loads of time together as a family. None of this would be possible if we lived somewhere like London though!

Nobody ever said on their deathbed that they wished they'd spent more time at work.

Maybe not alphajuliet, but I do think there are people who wish they'd achieved more in their career or been able to provide better for their families or traveled more - means to and end.

Off topic, but I'm getting very suspicious of this story about women working causing the house price boom, as detailed here by kittensinmydinner. It crops up a lot on threads about 'modern life is so awful'. Thing is, it's demonstrably not true.

Women have always worked. Who worked the famous factories? Do we sing about factory boys? Our work has never been appreciated or commanded the price of mens'. House prices did not rise with women starting to work. Women were working quite frequently through the 1980's when there was a mass house price drop.

What house prices did very obviously rise with was the rise in buy to lets. What attacks on women's jobs and the apparently growing but hidden belief that women should be in the home correlate to is restriction in the job supply.

Can’t really relate. My dad worked a 12 hour day and mummwas a teacher (in the 70s/80s). Playcentre, neighbours babysitting and my gran were childcare (luckily excellent).

We thrived.

Nowadays my husband got paternity leave (dad didn’t) and thechildcare available to me (ie free childcare hours) are so much better than what my mum had. Not perfect by any means...but better.

Working class women have always worked and worked hard. Posh ones, not so much.

My place of work (law firm) doesn't allow any sort of reduced hours or part time work. You have to be available to your client 24/7.

I would love to finish at 3 (commute 1hr 40) to be home for dinner and take them to school but it's out of my hands. My firm banned part time working last year.

Women and children used to work down coal mines for 12 hours a day.

I think you'll find modern life preferable rather than damaging to.families.

In the Middle East, I often saw families where the parent was in a different country from their children and spouses, because it was the only reasonable financial method for them to live. Its hard, but the sad fact is, that its about a roof over their head, food to eat and decent education. I think the parents speaking to their kids on the phone are doing exactly the same as the poor maid working in a different country for years at at time, and that is doing the best they possibly can do for their families.

I agree with everyone saying it is nothing new really, and at least now we have Skype etc to keep in touch. We didn't even have a phone when I was young and my Dad working away, he used to send me a telegram on my birthday . I think one difference now is that companies, the media etv., promote this idea of work/life balance, of how important family life is alongside the necessity to work. Unfortunately the reality for most people is very different, my own family included. My DH retires later this year and both of us will no longer be working. DS will still only be 13 and I consider us to be lucky beyond words we will be able to spend so much time with him if he wants us to.

I think you have a point. I know people have always had to work but Ive been thinking recently how the pressure just keeps increasing.

I'm not naive, I realise there have always been jobs where people had to work long days/shifts etc but even thinking about the traditional 9 to 5 office based job - that just doesn't exist for a lot of people anymore. It's 8 to 10 hours, a quick 20 minutes/half an hour for lunch, expectation that people can come in early/stay late because business requirements ie because we say so and you should be grateful to have a job. Add to that the lengthy commutes many have because they live where they can afford which often isn't where their job is, it's very stressful. I know some people will argue that it's a choice but it's not much of one. Most of us have to have paid employment!

It's been on my mind recently as in the last month two women in my office gave their notice to take up part time jobs as the commute and FT hours with small dc was killing them. Our company doesn't have PT, nor option to work from home. One told me she'd been seriously worried she'd have an accident with the baby in the car because she was so tired. A male colleague left last year having had a breakdown, not solely related to long hours/long commute but those certainly seemed to be a big factor from what he told me.

I think we do realise what modern life is doing to people and families but we are often left with little choice, lots of people are just trying to provide a home and some quality of life for their family.

fia101 would you consider a move to get that lifestyle? I work in house as a solicitor and get to fit my work in around when the children are at school/in bed/with their dad, plus the odd urgent call on my mobile. I’ve proven I can run even v large transactions working like that.

I grew up in the late 70's and 80's. My Dad worked on London so left for home before i woke up and didn't get in til 7 most evenings. My Mum worked school hours while I was at primary school, but ft when I started secondary school, so didn't get home til after 5.30. So it wasn't that different to it is now really.

My father worked overseas for months at a time, my mother worked full time. By comparison to them, I see much more of my children than they ever did and have a much closer relationship. My children talk to me about things I'd never have spoken to my parents about and still don't. We aren't at all close.

I know it's not like that for everybody of course but my children have it better than I did. I've had to sacrifice a lot to achieve it though.